The Ground attack plane (Su-22) that downed a fighter (F-5)

Cold war, Korea, Vietnam, and Desert Storm - up to and including for example the A-10, F-15, Mirage 200, MiG-29, and F-18.
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oldiaf

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Unread post03 Sep 2015, 07:24

During the second day of the Iraq-Iran war on Sep 23 1980 .... The Iraqi AF Re-launched a second massive attack over the Iranian ABs and airfields trying to achieve what is failed to achieve in the first day attack ( which is destruction of the Iranian AF on the ground ) ...
In one of these missions ... A formation of 6 Su-22 Squadron 1 attacked Tabrez AB in northern Iran ( the previous day this base was spared due to bad weather ) .... By the second day the Iranian air defenses were alert and CAPs of many fighters were flying to defend the bases and in the case of the Tabrez AB at the time of the attack there were 2 F-5s ... Anyhow the formation of 6 Su-22 attacked the base but the ground defenses were too heavy and the 2 leading aircrafts get hit and both pilot had to eject including the formation leader ( later they were released after the war ) .... Meanwhile one of the F-5 were attacking the Su-22 No.5 in the formation and the the Su-22 pilot had to decide wether to continue attacking the base with his 1000lb bombs and the target was only seconds from him or to jettison the bombs and engage the fighter behind him ... He decided if has to jettison the bombs then it would be over the base and that what he did ... Then he took a hard turn outmaneuvering the F-5 pilot ... armed only with 30mm guns with lower maneuverable plane than the nimble F-5 but obviously the F-5 pilot was such a looser pilot that allowed a ground attack plane that he had in his sight to over-maneuver him this way ... The Su-22 pilot pushed the buttons of his 30mm guns and within seconds the F-5 was in flame going down spirally to the ground .... The remaining 4 aircrafts bugged-out of the area but non-the-less the second F-5 was in pursuit ( probably to avenge his wingman ) ... This time the same Su-22 pilot encouraged with his earlier success turned around with fellow wingman to engage the threat only this time the courage betrayed the F-5 pilot and he turned around a lit his after burner to escape the fate his wingman suffered .... The formation resumed its journey home but less than 10 min. from base ( Kirkuk base ) , they were notified the base was under heavy bombing and they have to divert to a secondary airfield some 40nm farther west ... 3 of the 4 Su-22 made it to that base but the one who got the F-5 had no enough fuel for the remaining distance out of the amount he burned in the 2 engagements against 2 F-5s ... So he decided to land anyway in his home base that was bombed minutes earlier ... He used a taxiway to land and with astonishing luck he succeded in landing safely and hide his aircraft in one of the shelters ...
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nikolaos

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Unread post03 Sep 2015, 08:59

Thanks for sharing
Do you know if the F-5 loss is confirmed from the Iranian archives?
Do you know if the Su-22 pilot survived the war?
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oldiaf

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Unread post03 Sep 2015, 10:20

nikolaos wrote:Thanks for sharing
Do you know if the F-5 loss is confirmed from the Iranian archives?
Do you know if the Su-22 pilot survived the war?

The Iranian AF claimed at the second day ( Sep 23 1980 ) that one of its F-5 downed a Su-22 but I don't if they were referring to this same incident or another .
As for the Pilot yes he survived the war and later he became an AB commander attaining the rank of Major General .
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tomcooper

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Unread post03 Sep 2015, 10:44

Ahem...

The IRIAF had not a single F-5 airborne over TFB.2 that morning. On the contrary, it was in the process of launching 20 F-5Es for attack on al-Hurrya AB, outside Kirkuk, when 6 Su-22s appeared overhead.

The Iraqis attempted to hit first pair of F-5s that was rolling for take-off and claimed both of them as shot down. Actually, neither of the Tigers was hit. On the contrary, 1st Lt Jamshid Owshal turned around and hit one of Sukhois with an AIM-9J, shooting him down - and this while his F-5E was still loaded with four Mk.82s.

The other Sukhoi was shot down by air defences.

Details can be read in Iranian Tigers at War.
F-Arba-Ashara!! Yalla, yalla!!
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oldiaf

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Unread post03 Sep 2015, 11:10

tomcooper wrote:Ahem...

The IRIAF had not a single F-5 airborne over TFB.2 that morning. On the contrary, it was in the process of launching 20 F-5Es for attack on al-Hurrya AB, outside Kirkuk, when 6 Su-22s appeared overhead.

The Iraqis attempted to hit first pair of F-5s that was rolling for take-off and claimed both of them as shot down. Actually, neither of the Tigers was hit. On the contrary, 1st Lt Jamshid Owshal turned around and hit one of Sukhois with an AIM-9J, shooting him down - and this while his F-5E was still loaded with four Mk.82s.

The other Sukhoi was shot down by air defences.

Details can be read in Iranian Tigers at War.

Possibly ... Both Iraqi pilots were taken prisoners and released after the war ... But one of the other Su-22 shut downed an F-5 probably was just scrambled for the Hurriya base raid
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mixelflick

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Unread post03 Sep 2015, 12:29

"The first casualty in war, is the truth..."

I find both stories intriguing, but tend to believe OldIraqiAirForce's version. That's not an indictment of you Tom, so please don't take offense...
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old.iraqi.air.force

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Unread post03 Sep 2015, 14:44

Major General Alwan al-Abousi personally wrote to the First Lieutenant Imad Abdul Rahman Tawfiq his diary who achieved that air victory, and he has the Su22 Gunsight image proof that kill, he will published it in his book.
First Lieutenant Imad Abdul Rahman Tawfiq third one from the left.
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tomcooper

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Unread post03 Sep 2015, 21:05

mixelflick wrote:"The first casualty in war, is the truth..."

I find both stories intriguing, but tend to believe OldIraqiAirForce's version. That's not an indictment of you Tom, so please don't take offense...

Beliefs are something for places of worship. I prefer evidence.

Whenever that clown gets the serial number and construction number of the F-5E he is claiming was shot down over TFB.2 on that day, plus the name of the IRIAF pilot in question (not to talk about the serial number of the 'Su-22' that should've scored that kill, which is laughable by itself, then there were no 'Su-22' stationed in that part of Iraq), I'll accept the Iraqi version.

Presently it's so that I've got the serial number of the F-5E that has scored that kill (plus the serial number of the AIM-9J used to clobber that Sukhoi out of the skies), name of the pilot and his gun-camera picture, plus names of both IrAF pilots that were captured.

Means: evidence is clear and undisputable.
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old.iraqi.air.force

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Unread post03 Sep 2015, 22:09

And did the clown of Tehran ever confirmed his claims of 250 Iranian air victories by serial number and the name of Iraqi pilots and serial number of that missile scored kill and their gun-camera picture..etc
At lest the Iraqis must be shot down over Iran territory so Iranian should have all this details plus red cross document.
How the attack pilot can see or even note the enemy aircraft serial number or even knew the Iranian pilot name since he shot him down over his land?
Let see Iranian evidence prove their claims of shooting down 33 Iraqi Mirage..
Contradiction & laughable by itself.
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tomcooper

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Unread post03 Sep 2015, 22:46

A clown expects the pilot to know such details: somebody who served in the military knows this is the business of the intelligence. :D
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old.iraqi.air.force

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Unread post03 Sep 2015, 23:11

And for somebody who served in the military experienced that even the most powerful country and it's intelligence after 2003 asked for aircraft locations and it's S/N or destroyed on the ground and many other questions..etc
So the intelligence work didn't focus on aircraft S/N that shot down, intelligence work focus on enemy combat capabilities and their development..etc
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tomcooper

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Unread post04 Sep 2015, 21:18

sigh... you're certainly - and by far - the best argument for anti-baby pills I've ever seen... :roll:

But please, keep on babbling: you can't avoid posting something that makes sense - sooner or later.
F-Arba-Ashara!! Yalla, yalla!!

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