Iraqi AF victories during operation Desert Storm

Cold war, Korea, Vietnam, and Desert Storm - up to and including for example the A-10, F-15, Mirage 200, MiG-29, and F-18.
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old.iraqi.air.force

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Unread post29 Oct 2015, 15:08

None of the U.S F-111's flew over SAM or AAA's areas at lest the first night of the war, or in other way one of them it should be lost in combat action due to heavily defending, the U.S F-111s used unique technique to attack Iraqi targets out of SAM and AAA's range, therefore if you check out the immediate take-off list you will find most the interception missions was against the F-111's and that's proof enough the F-111 out of air defence areas and for sure we're not sending our interceptors over the hot zone. All the involved pilots who engage with the U.S F-111's proved their engagements through the Radar films and Remora ECM pod recorders and the ground controls none of them was delusional.
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han9

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Unread post29 Oct 2015, 18:10

Valid point – yet still I would expect the damage to be of different sort i.e. peppering by shrapnel.

The thing is, that what can be confirmed from available sources looks rather like individual hits from small calibre rounds or an odd piece of shrapnel of which many were swirling in the air as numerous AA shells burst. This is why it is hard for me to ‘buy’ into the MiGs damaged them story. At the same time it is no secret that MiGs went after the Aardvarks and the latter had a few too close for comfort encounters with IrAF fighters before managing to shake them off.
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Unread post29 Oct 2015, 22:47

I suppose in '91 there was still quite a case for great ECM and blazing on-the-deck speed.
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basher54321

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Unread post30 Oct 2015, 01:29

han9 wrote:Valid point – yet still I would expect the damage to be of different sort i.e. peppering by shrapnel.

The thing is, that what can be confirmed from available sources looks rather like individual hits from small calibre rounds or an odd piece of shrapnel of which many were swirling in the air as numerous AA shells burst. This is why it is hard for me to ‘buy’ into the MiGs damaged them story. At the same time it is no secret that MiGs went after the Aardvarks and the latter had a few too close for comfort encounters with IrAF fighters before managing to shake them off.


Picked out some MiG scrapes from https://ospreypublishing.com/f-111-ef-111-units-in-combat(more detail is in the book)

17th Jan MiG-29 engaged F-111F flight
17th Jan Mirage F.1 fired missile at EF-111 (pilots listed )
17th Jan MiG-29 engaged F-111F
19th Jan MiG-25 fired 3 x missiles at EF-111 flight
19th Jan MiG-29 fired missile at F-111F (pilots listed)

F-111F 70-2384 damaged by pre strike collision with KC-135
Lost EF-111 is in there too

Also might be of interest - from an old source:

The lack of reaction by the Iraqi Air Force did cause some considerable uneasiness among Coalition aircrews, particularly the F-111F drivers. They reported on several occasions being intercepted by Iraqi aircraft that approached them and even illuminated them with searchlights without ever firing.

The TACC log reports a ballad about “Baghdad Billy” that runs as follows:

“I'm an F-111 Jock, and I'm here to tell - of Baghdad Billy, and his jet from hell.
We were well protected, with Eagles in tight - but that didn't stop, the man with the light.
RJ, AWACS, they didn't see - As Baghdad Billy, snuck up on me.
Then I found a spotlight shining at my six - and my whoozoo said, hoolyy sh*t.
I popped off some chaff and I popped a flare - but that Iraqi bandit, he didn't care.
I had tracers on my left, and tracers on my right - with a load of bombs, I had to run from the fight.
I rolled my Vark over and took her down - into the darkness and finally lost the clown.
When I landed back at Taif and gave this rap - CENTAF said, I was full of crap.
I'm here to tell you, the Gods' honest truth - that Iraqi bandit, he ain't no spoof.
You don't have to worry, there is no way - you'll see Baghdad Billy if you fly in the day.
But listen to me son, for I am right - watch out for Baghdad Billy if you fly at night!!!”
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old.iraqi.air.force

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Unread post30 Oct 2015, 04:40

Baghdad Billy also mentioned in General Charles A. Horner book Every Man A Tiger and the incident of losing the EF.111 which is shot down by Capt.Nafie on January 17-1991 at 0306 highlighted as well, but also the incident date shifted to February 13..I have all respect to General Charles A. Horner and i can guess he mentioned that based on what he got from reports. But do i need to swear this incident happened in the first night of the war!
Even the top secret reports of Iraqi air force and air defense which sent to president Saddam at that time (did not mention or indicate any penetration to Iraqi air space on February 13 in that area),Other than that on this date U.S AF destroyed all targets inside Iraq and they were focus on Iraqi army and the republican guard in Kuwait.
Here is a copy from the original report shows the coalition activities and air violation in the west of Iraq to specific area where the F-111 shot down prove no activities on February 13 -1991
Image
Every Man A Tiger
The confusion of war breeds endless myths. Some bring laughs, others bring deaths. Ours, sadly, was the tragic kind. It was called"Baghdad Billy the Iraqi interceptor from hell. Soon after the start of air operations over Iraq, pilots flying the EF-111 electronic jamming aircraft began to report interceptions by Iraqi fighters, even when there was no evidence of airborne Iraqis. They claimed they'd seen Iraqi fighter radar signals on their warning scopes spotlights from Iraqi interceptor aircraft, or even tracers and missiles being fired at them. Yet in no case could intelligence sources or AWACS confirm these sightings. Much of the time, there were no indications that Iraqi aircraft were even airborne. There was one constant: F-15s had been in the vicinity of the EF-111s during their mysterious sightings. In short, they were imagining things. We called their phantom"Baghdad Billy. But that was headquarters wisdom. The crews knew what they'd seen with their own eyes. they knew that they had narrowly escaped death at the hands of an Iraqi fighter pilot The sides were drawn. The fat-assed generals in Riyadh who didn't believe the crew reports, versus the pilots and weapons systtems operators who were out there night after night risking their lives.
You don't enter an argument like this and expect logic to prevail. But these were fighter pilots, and it was all good fun until somebody got hurt. That happened the night of February 13. Ratchet 75, an EF-111A tasked to support-am Iraqi radars, was the third aircraft in a flight of three EF-111s crossing the border between Saudi Arabia and Iraq in the vicinity of Ar ar, a town in northwestern Saudi Arabia. At 1109 Saudi time, Ratchet-75 should have passed Ar'ar at 21,000 feet, four minutes behind the leader, Ratchet-73, and two minutes behind number two,
was located due west of Baghdad hallway to the Jordanian border. He never got there. At li two F-15Es heading south over southern Iraq at 31,000 feet saw an aircraft below them ejecting eight to ten flares. The night sky was lit up by the flares and the blaze of afterburners, as the aircraft rolled out of a hard left turn and began a series of"S-turns" as it descended sharply. Twenty seconds later, the F-15s saw the aircraft eject three more flares, soon followed by a huge fireball as the aircraft hit the ground. The lead F-15E, Pontiac-47, began an orbit over the crash site, while his wingman, Pontiac-48, went to the tanker track to refuel. A little over three hours later, a Special Operations helicopter, Sierra-43, arrived on scene and the rescue team examined the wreckage. They confimed the loss of the EF-111, its pilot, and the WSO. Though we will never know what happened, it was reasonable to conclude that the crew of the EF-111, like other-111 crews, had radar warning signals or visual sightings that indicated an Iraqi interceptor approaching for a kill. Once again, the AWACS picture was clean of enemy aircraft, and once again, F-15 aircraft were in the immediate vicinity
had passed unedited reports of the phantom interceptor to all the aircrews, thereby giving the story credibility. Chris fought back. As he saw it, his job was to get the word out. If the EF-111 aircrews had observed something, he reported it to the other units. And it was then the job of the local commanders to make sure the aircrews didn't do anything extreme, like a low-altitude jink- out at night. Both Buster and Chris were right. It was Chris's job to get the word out. And it was Buster's job as the fighter division commander to worry about the lives of his aircrews. But the real blame was mine. I should have been more forceful about dispelling the Baghdad Billy myth right from the start. should have seen that a crew would get so engrossed with defeating the apparently real threat that they succumbed to the ever-present killer, the ground. My failure meant two needless deaths and bitter tears for the families of the crew of Ratchet-75. The message went out to knock of defensive reactions to Raohdad Billy
the incident wasn't a total loss it inspired a song.
https://books.google.com/books?id=_RCSKyN5UVEC&pg=PT223&lpg=PT223&dq=the+Iraqi+interceptor+from+hell&source=bl&ots=ey7yDnJjwA&sig=4jmn_cF9NiiYCLApYYwrpYB6UI0&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CCMQ6AEwAGoVChMIr6jz9JPpyAIVAnIaCh13kA_R#v=onepage&q=the%20Iraqi%20interceptor%20from%20hell&f=false

Please note this text may contains some missing words due to using google translation.
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han9

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Unread post30 Oct 2015, 08:04

Very interesting and thx for all those great posts.

Since I see no point in repeating what was written by others and also find arguing for the sake of arguing as unproductive the only thing I have to add is, that the notion of the Americans somehow 'moving' the date of an EF 111 loss is hard to 'buy', at least for me.
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Unread post30 Oct 2015, 15:13

Yeah don't worry about it - very difficult to know - even if you assume both sides have made available all information you still pretty much need forensic analysis on the damage (if you have access to the frame) - even if the pilot survives they often don't know what really hit them.
Also gun cam footage in any war can clearly show hits or a clear explosion nearby but the attacking pilot cant generally hang about to see if the damage is significant in a lot of cases.


Both the USAF battle Damage report and the 2014 research give the combat loss of 66-0023 on the 14th Feb - although the callsign is given as "Wrench 08" in the 2014 book (bradt/Einchenlaub - KIA/RIP) not "Ratchet 75" as in Horners book - so there is another discrepancy there (don't suppose Pete Davies hangs on here as well)
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Unread post30 Oct 2015, 18:46

A question for Old.iraqi, what is your opinion about the scraps of 19/01 with Mig-25 and Mig-29 firing missiles against F-111s' according to the sourced info provided by Basher54321?
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old.iraqi.air.force

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Unread post30 Oct 2015, 22:27

There was no engagements with F-111s' on January 19-1991, note most the U.S F-111's missions was at night in the early days of the war.
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Unread post01 Nov 2015, 08:19

Exactly how the Tornado crash is confirmed to be as a result of MiG-29 ?? Especially it was crashed on January 22nd not 19th :
http://www.ejection-history.org.uk/airc ... ornado.htm
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