Desert storm Iraqi AF Losses ( claimed vs actual )

Unread postPosted: 07 Aug 2015, 16:00
by oldiaf
Starting by Jan 17 1991
Claimed By Coalition aircrafts
1 MiG-29 downed by F-15C pilot Kilk squadron/wing ( 58/33 ) weapon AIM-7
1 Mirage F.1 downed by F-15C Pilot Tate squadron /wing ( 71/1 ) weapon AIM-7
1 Mirage F.1 downed by F-15C Pilot Graeter squadron/wing ( 58/33 ) weapon AIM-7
1 Mirage F.1 Downed by F-15C pilot Graeter weapon Maneuvre
1 Mirage F.1 downed by EF-111 pilot Denton/Brandon squadron/wing ( 390/366 ) weapon Maneuvre
1 MiG-29 downed by F-15C pilot Draeger squadron/wing ( 58/33 ) weapon AIM-7
1 MiG-29 downed by F-15C pilot Magil squadron/wing ( 58/33 ) weapon AIM-7
1 MiG-21 downed by F/A-18 pilot Fox squadron VFA-81 weapon AIM-9
1 MiG-21 downed by F/A-18 pilot Mongillo squadron VFA-81 weapon AIM-7
Also the USAF claimed that during engagement between a formation of F-15Es and Iraqi AF 1 MiG-29 shut downed an Iraqi MiG-23 fratricide kill and the same MiG-29 crashed due to spatial disorientation.
Note : The second greater kill might be the same one crashed by the EF-111 as some people think.

Iraqi AF admitted losses :
1 MiG-29 pilot Tariq Saed squadron 39 by US F-15 Pilot KIA
1 MiG-29 Pilot Emad Mohammed Saed squadron 39 by US F-15 pilot KIA
1 Mirage F.1 Pilot Sabah Mutlag Squadron 89 pilot Ejected
1 MiG-23 Pilot Hassan squadron 73 pilot KIA Unknown enemy aircraft
1 MiG-21 pilots Laith Squadron 47 Pilot killed US F/A-18
1 MiG-21 Pilot Abbas Khudair squadron 47 Pilot KIA US F/A-18

Re: Desert storm Iraqi AF Losses ( claimed vs actual )

Unread postPosted: 07 Aug 2015, 23:19
by old.iraqi.air.force
Conduct of military operations during the Gulf War II

January 17-1991
Baghdad Local time started from 0200 till 2300

Immediate take-off.
Capt. Zuhair Dawood
Qadisiyah Airbase
Squadron 96th
MIG-25PD
Target: group of F/A-18s

Immediate take-off.
Major. Tariq Saeed formation leader
Capt. Emad Mohammed No2
Talha Airfield
Squadron 39th
MIG-29s
Target: combat formation of F-111s
while they just climb 2Km being shot down by U.S F-15's and both pilots KIA.

Immediate take-off.
Capt. Alaa formation leader
Capt. (Withheld for privacy) No2
Habbaniyah Airbase
Squadron 97th
MIG-25PDS
Target: combat formation of F-111s was heading to Tikrit base.

Immediate take-off.
Major Sabah Mutlaq
Abu Ubaidah Airbase
Squadron 89th
Mirage F1EQ4
Target: group of F-15s
Shot down by U.S F-15, Eject safely.

Immediate take-off.
Capt. Khadr Ahjab formation leader
Capt. Haitham Mizher No2
Tammuz Airbase
Squadron 6th
MIG-29s
Target: combat formation of F-111s & B-52

Immediatetake-off.
First lieutenant. Nafie Najim Al-Jubouri
H2 Airbase
Squadron 79th
Mirage F-1
Target: group of F-111s

Immediate take-off.
Capt. Hossam Sami
Balad Air Base
Squadron 63th
MIG-23ML
Target: combat formation of F-111s

Immediate take-off.
Capt. (Withheld for privacy)
Balad Airbase
Squadron 63th
MIG-23ML
Target: combat formation of F-111s

Immediate take-off.
Capt. Sami al-Obeidi
Saddam Airbase
Squadron 79th
Mirage F-1
Target: group of F-15s

Immediate take-off.
Capt. Hassan
Saad Airbase
Squadron 73th
MIG-23ML
While he just turned right with less than 2Km was shot down and KIA by unknown

Immediate take-off.
Capt.Ismail formation leader
Capt. Helal No2
Tammuz Airbase
But took off from airfield No 37
Squadron 6th
MIG-29s
Target: group of F-15s
clash with F-15s resulted damage to Capt. Ismail MIG-29 emergency landed, Capt. Helal also fired back on F-15s result unknown

Mid afternoon around 1500

First lieutenant Abbas Khudair
First lieutenant Laith
Almrsnh airfield 22Km Northwest H3
Squadron 47th
F-7Bs
Was shot down by U.S F-18s, both pilots KIA.

I made mistake in comment based on my knowledge that Capt Hani Idris Mirage F-1 shot down on the first night with Major Sabah Mutlaq but later i got to know that he was shot down January 19-1991, so i apologies for this error gentlemen
http://www.f-16.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=8293&start=30


Major Sabah Mutlaq Mirage F1EQ4 after being shot down
Image

Re: Desert storm Iraqi AF Losses ( claimed vs actual )

Unread postPosted: 07 Aug 2015, 23:32
by oldiaf
Any activity on the second day Jan 18 ??

Re: Desert storm Iraqi AF Losses ( claimed vs actual )

Unread postPosted: 07 Aug 2015, 23:47
by oldiaf
Also Saad airbase same H2 ?? And Tamuz airbase same as Habaniya ??

Re: Desert storm Iraqi AF Losses ( claimed vs actual )

Unread postPosted: 08 Aug 2015, 10:51
by oldiaf
Immediatetake-off.
First lieutenant. Nafie Najim Al-Jubouri
H2 Airbase
Squadron 79th
Mirage F-1
Target: group of F-111s

I read before that he was No.2 but the formation leader had a problem with the aircraft that prevent it from taking off but Lt. Nafie Najim asked the formation leader to proceed with his No.2 aircraft

Re: Desert storm Iraqi AF Losses ( claimed vs actual )

Unread postPosted: 08 Aug 2015, 18:33
by old.iraqi.air.force
oldiaf wrote:Immediatetake-off.
First lieutenant. Nafie Najim Al-Jubouri
H2 Airbase
Squadron 79th
Mirage F-1
Target: group of F-111s

I read before that he was No.2 but the formation leader had a problem with the aircraft that prevent it from taking off but Lt. Nafie Najim asked the formation leader to proceed with his No.2 aircraft

Give me time I'm preparing another activities belong to other air bases for the same date, i will try to answer all your questions on other threads.

Re: Desert storm Iraqi AF Losses ( claimed vs actual )

Unread postPosted: 08 Aug 2015, 18:52
by oldiaf
old.iraqi.air.force wrote:
oldiaf wrote:Immediatetake-off.
First lieutenant. Nafie Najim Al-Jubouri
H2 Airbase
Squadron 79th
Mirage F-1
Target: group of F-111s

I read before that he was No.2 but the formation leader had a problem with the aircraft that prevent it from taking off but Lt. Nafie Najim asked the formation leader to proceed with his No.2 aircraft

Give me time I'm preparing another activities belong to other air bases for the same date, i will try to answer all your questions on other threads.

Thanks. waiting for the Informations

Re: Desert storm Iraqi AF Losses ( claimed vs actual )

Unread postPosted: 09 Aug 2015, 13:19
by oldiaf
IrAF losses Jan 19 1991 claimed by USAF
1 Mirage F.1 by USAF F-15 Pilot Prather squadron/wing 525/36 weapon AIM-7
1 Mirage F.1 by USAF F-15 Pilot Sveden squadron/wing 525/36 weapon AIM-7
1 MiG-25 by USAF F-15 Pilot Tollini squadron/wing 58/33 weapon AIM-7
1 MiG-25 by USAF F-15 Pilot Pitts squadron/wing 58/33 weapon AIM-7
1 MiG-29 by USAF F-15 Pilot Underhill squadron/wing 58/33 weapon AIM-7
1 MiG-29 by USAF F-15 Pilot Rodriguez squadron/wing 58/33 weapon Maneuvre

Losses admitted by IrAF
1 Mirage F.1 while taking off Pilot Ziad Sobhi Mosa KIA Squadron 89 by US F-15
1 Mirage F.1 while taking off Pilot Hani Edriss KIA squadron 89 by US F-15
1 MiG-25R Pilot ?? Fate ?? Squadron ?? by US F-15
1 MiG-25R Pilot ?? Fate ?? Squadron ?? by US F-15
1 MiG-29 Pilot Jameel Sayhood ( Ejected ) squadron 39 by US F-15

Re: Desert storm Iraqi AF Losses ( claimed vs actual )

Unread postPosted: 10 Aug 2015, 00:17
by old.iraqi.air.force
Extension
Conduct of military operations during the Gulf War II

January 17-1991
Baghdad Local time started from 0200 till 2300


Immediate take-off.
Capt. Ahmed Hussein Hamdan
Tammuz Airbase
Squadron 6th
MIG-29
Target: combat formation F-15s


Immediate take-off.
Capt. Awad Tawfiq
First Lieutenant. Jamal al-Khafaji
Abu Ubaidah Airbase
Squadron 81th
Mirage F-1s
Target: unknown combat formation


Aborted take-off.
Capt. (Withheld for privacy).
Jalibah Airfield
Squadron 6th
MIG-29
Take-off Aborted Airfield under attack.


Immediate take-off.
Capt. Najim Abdullah Al-Jubouri
H2 Airbase
Squadron 79th
Mirage F-1s
Target: group of F-111s

Immediate take-off.
Capt. Kefah Safa
Saddam Airbase
Squadron 79th
Mirage F-1s
Target: group of F-15s

Aborted take-off.
Capt. Wajdi
Tammuz Airbase
Squadron 79th
Take-off Aborted Airbase under attack

There are missing events belong to January 17-1991 regarding to southern air bases such Shuaiba and Nasiriyah AB due to absence involved people and loss of many documents

Re: Desert storm Iraqi AF Losses ( claimed vs actual )

Unread postPosted: 10 Aug 2015, 00:52
by oldiaf
old.iraqi.air.force wrote:Extension
Conduct of military operations during the Gulf War II

January 17-1991
Baghdad Local time started from 0200 till 2300


Immediate take-off.
Capt. Ahmed Hussein Hamdan
Tammuz Airbase
Squadron 6th
MIG-29
Target: combat formation F-15s


Immediate take-off.
Capt. Awad Tawfiq
First Lieutenant. Jamal al-Khafaji
Abu Ubaidah Airbase
Squadron 81th
Mirage F-1s
Target: unknown combat formation


Aborted take-off.
Capt. (Withheld for privacy).
Jalibah Airfield
Squadron 6th
MIG-29
Take-off Aborted Airfield under attack.


Immediate take-off.
Capt. Najim Abdullah Al-Jubouri
H2 Airbase
Squadron 79th
Mirage F-1s
Target: group of F-111s

Immediate take-off.
Capt. Kefah Safa
Saddam Airbase
Squadron 79th
Mirage F-1s
Target: group of F-15s

Aborted take-off.
Capt. Wajdi
Tammuz Airbase
Squadron 79th
Take-off Aborted Airbase under attack

There are missing events belong to January 17-1991 regarding to southern air bases such Shuaiba and Nasiriyah AB due to absence involved people and loss of many documents

Very interesting informations .. But what about activities on the second and third days Jan 18 and 19 1991 ?

Re: Desert storm Iraqi AF Losses ( claimed vs actual )

Unread postPosted: 10 Aug 2015, 01:02
by oldiaf
I have counted so far 22 sorties plus 2 aborted . The US claimed the IrAF flown 24 sorties on the first 24 hours

Re: Desert storm Iraqi AF Losses ( claimed vs actual )

Unread postPosted: 10 Aug 2015, 01:31
by oldiaf
Aborted take-off.
Capt. (Withheld for privacy).
Jalibah Airfield
Squadron 6th
MIG-29
Take-off Aborted Airfield under attack.

Jalibah Airfield was it in southern Iraq ?!!

Re: Desert storm Iraqi AF Losses ( claimed vs actual )

Unread postPosted: 10 Aug 2015, 02:57
by old.iraqi.air.force
Conduct of military operations during the Gulf War II

January 18-1991

On this date Iraqi air force activities was limited to repair the runways and evacuate the aircrafts to alternative bunkers.
__

January 19-1991

Capt. Saad Nehme formation leader
F.lieutenant. Hussein Abdul Sattar
They belong to Habbaniyah Airbase
But took-off from H3 Airbase
Squadron 97th
MIG-25s
Target: In mission drag the F-15s to the SAM area.
Both MIG-25s shot down by U.S F-15, Capt. Saad Nehme eject but injured, F.lieutenant. Hussein Abdul Sattar KIA


Immediate take-off.
Capt. Koutaiba Said formation leader
Capt. Qasim Khalaf.
H3 Airbase
Squadron 39th
MIG-29s
Target: group of F-15s with AWACS


Immediate take-off.
Capt. Jameel Sayhood
Capt. Alaa Abdul-Jabbar
H3 Airbase
Squadron 39th
MIG-29s
Target: combat formation Panavia Tornado GR1s
Capt. Jameel Sayhood obtained an aerial victory befor being shot down by US F-15s, eject but injured


Immediate take-off.
Capt. Hani Idriss formation leader
Capt. Ziad Albeso
Squadron 89th
Saddam Airbase
Target: group of F-15s
While they took-off minute alter being shot down by F-15s ambush them near Makmura Mountain.

Re: Desert storm Iraqi AF Losses ( claimed vs actual )

Unread postPosted: 10 Aug 2015, 21:55
by oldiaf
Any activities on the fourth day Jan 20 ? Or the fellowing days before the attempted raid on Saudi territory Jan 24 ?

Re: Desert storm Iraqi AF Losses ( claimed vs actual )

Unread postPosted: 10 Aug 2015, 22:08
by old.iraqi.air.force
Immediate take-off.
Capt. Hani Idriss formation leader
Capt. Ziad Albeso
Squadron 89th
Saddam Airbase
Mirage F1BQs
Target: group of F-15s
While they took-off minute alter being shot down by F-15s ambush them near Makmura Mountain.

Missed to write the type of the aircraft

Re: Desert storm Iraqi AF Losses ( claimed vs actual )

Unread postPosted: 10 Aug 2015, 22:09
by old.iraqi.air.force
Yes i will add that.
oldiaf wrote:Any activities on the fourth day Jan 20 ? Or the fellowing days before the attempted raid on Saudi territory Jan 24 ?

Yes i will add that.
oldiaf wrote:Also Saad airbase same H2 ?? And Tamuz airbase same as Habaniya ??

Yes that's right (in some case we call Plateau in Arabic Al-Hadaba referring to British part at Habaniya AB.
oldiaf wrote:I read before that he was No.2 but the formation leader had a problem with the aircraft that prevent it from taking off but Lt. Nafie Najim asked the formation leader to proceed with his No.2 aircraft

Yes correct, but how did you even knew this one?!!
oldiaf wrote:I have counted so far 22 sorties plus 2 aborted . The US claimed the IrAF flown 24 sorties on the first 24 hours
I have noted: There are missing events belong to January 17-1991 regarding to southern air bases such Shuaiba and Nasiriyah AB due to absence involved people and loss of many documents
oldiaf wrote:Jalibah Airfield was it in southern Iraq ?!!

Yes south Ali/Tallil Air Base 30.547272, 46.604498

Re: Desert storm Iraqi AF Losses ( claimed vs actual )

Unread postPosted: 11 Aug 2015, 00:11
by oldiaf
I also understood he was Diabetic and he had a broken arm before and I learned that Aircraft SN he used in 1991 was 4021 and the one he used in his last mission was 4571 !

Re: Desert storm Iraqi AF Losses ( claimed vs actual )

Unread postPosted: 11 Aug 2015, 21:48
by oldiaf
On Jan 24 1991 , 2 Mirages piloted by Ali Alobaidi and Mohammed Salim tried to attack an oil port in KSA - this is the third attempt as the day before and the day before that, they tried to mount the raid but prevented from taking off because of the risk of being shut down by circling F-15s, this time they made it and to the suprise of Iraqis themselves !! Later it is cleared that the US aircrafts didn't challenge them because the CAP on their location was the duty f Navy F-14s and these Pacific fleet F-14 Radios was not operated on the same frequency of the E-3 AWACS of the USAF but on that of the E-2C of the Navy ( the Iraqis claimed they heard the screaming of the AWACS operator to the F-14s to intercept the Mirages but to no avail !! ) . after refuelling in the air by another two Mirages they proceeded to the Target ... It is not known exactly who downed them - The Saudis and Coalition claimed that a Saudi F15 operated by Alshamrani usedtwo AIM-9 sidewinder to shoot them he even claimed on TV interview that he was so close to them that he saw the second pilot looking to the formation leader in horror - The Iraqis claimed that the most reasonable cause for their downing was US Navy ships .
Pilot Mohammed Salim body was never recovered in the sea while Ali Alobaidi ejected but was injured and captured by the Saudis and he they had to amputate his legs but he died later and his body and death certificate was issued to the Iraqis by the Saudis .

Re: Desert storm Iraqi AF Losses ( claimed vs actual )

Unread postPosted: 12 Aug 2015, 01:59
by old.iraqi.air.force
On Jan 24-1991 we lost the two Mirage F1EQ4s flown by Major. Ali Hussein Fadel and Capt. Mohammed Saleem from 89Sq of Abu Ubaidah AB in mission to attack Saudi refinery “Ras Tanura” the two Iraq Mirage was loaded by (x2 400Kg SAMP parachute bombs + x1 2200 drop tank + x1 sicomor + x1 Remora ECM pod + x2 R.550 Magic + 30mm DEFA cannon with 250 rounds) they did took off at 11:49:30 from Abu Ubaidah air base (TOT 1245) and fly south along the Iranian border at extremely low altitude 30 to 50m, with very high speed 940kph to minimize the chances of any detection. After successfully complete their air refueling couple time the formation continued to fly less than 50 meters with 960Kph heading towards to Ras Tanura, whith skillful pilots and good planning Major Ali and No2 Mohammad Saleem successfully rip off coalition naval units and cross Saudi territorial waters, the two Iraqi Mirages flew along a control boundary between the U.S. Air Force and Navy as well. The Iraqi Mirages made it to a point approximately 70km south of the Kuwaiti border just off the Saudi coast without being challenged. the coalition had constant patrol of F-14 and F-18 to the south west of Kuwait some of these patrols aircraft had intercepted them but did not succeed, Major Ali “the formation leader” being shot down by coalition navy, but he managed to eject and lost one of his foot during ejaculation process and he was survived 84 days in a Saudi hospital “but he died for unknown reasons the death certificate did not mention the reason!”, Capt. Mohammad Saleem “we don’t know for sure he is being shot down by coalition navy and wasn’t able to eject or flown into the water ” regrettably his body did not recovered. There is no Saudi F-15s involved in the incident.
The air base was under attack repeatedly that's why prevented them from taking off.
There was no surprise, It was a military order and must be implemented.
No one heard the AWACS screaming at all, this is inaccurate..
Saudi F15 Pilot Ayedh Alshamrani claimed two different story on TV interview and to the press and each one do not match with the other and this in itself denies his involvement.
-Once he claimed that he came close to them less than 20 meter and he saw the the formation leader in horror and turn back and fired his missiles to shot them down (I think if there is some one was in real horror it must be the claimer no one else) for some unique reasons 1.These two Iraqi pilots flown in tough exceptional circumstances with the feeling of the brunt of the war and certain death in battle they successfully completed their air refueling on low altitude for twice with bad weather condition this reflects their insistence to face the battle and do their duty and their high skills fighting.
On other interview Saudi F15 Pilot Ayedh Alshamrani claimed: "I am positive they knew I was there, some plane had intercepted them," Ayedh said. "They just started breaking in front of me, but it was too late."
Ayedh said he fired two Sidewinder missiles, first at one Mirage and then at the other, within about five seconds.
Now as you can see two claims to one story..
Photo to Major. Ali Hussein Fadel
Image
Photo to Capt. Mohammed Saleem
Image

Rest in peace good friends and your place in depths of our heart

A copy of the death certificate Major. Ali Hussein Fadel which did not mention any reason
Image

Saudi F15 Pilot Ayedh Alshamrani claim:
http://articles.latimes.com/1991-01-25/news/mn-767_1_saudi-arabia

Re: Desert storm Iraqi AF Losses ( claimed vs actual )

Unread postPosted: 13 Aug 2015, 10:22
by oldiaf
On the 9th day Jan 25 1991 F-117a used GBU-27 bunker buster bombs to penetrate the hardened aircraft shelters. Was the effect of this impacted the Iraqi government to send its aircrafts to Iran ? Probably and probably not , such a move most be planned before but was the destruction of hardened shelters ultimately set the date for such a move ?!
The exodus started on Jan 26 among those flown away 7 Su-25s - these 7 returned from Iran in 2014 / the only Iraqi planes returned by Iran adding to 5 Su-25 second hand from Russia.

Re: Desert storm Iraqi AF Losses ( claimed vs actual )

Unread postPosted: 13 Aug 2015, 14:08
by oldiaf
Jan 26
3 MiG-23s claimed by USAF F-15s, 4 MiG-23s took off from a base in western Iraq, 1 returned to base because of malfunction and 3 proceeded , the F-15s picked them up in classical BVR engagement using AIM-7s
All form Squadron/wing 58/33 :
Draeger - Schiavi - Rodriguez
The next day Jan 27 another 3 MiG-23s were downed by F-15s this time by 2 pilots from squadron/wing 53/36 Denney and Powell, Denney used a sidewinder AIM-9 while Powell used Sparrow AIM-7 , also Powell claimed a Mirage F.1 the same day using AIM-7.
The Iraqis on the other hands claimed that a formation of 3 MiG-23s from squadron 73 took off from H2 Saad Airbase to be repositioned at Balad Bakr Air Base , these 3 planes piloted by Shakir Raihan - Kareem - Amir Hasan . The first 2 get hit by US F-15s and pilots KIA while the third one managed to return to its base .
It is unknown which engagement this one is : the one of 26 or 27 of Jan 1991
What was the purpose of these flights and repositionings ? A better shelters ? A closer base for future AA combat ? A closer base to flow them to Iran later ? Providing escort to escaping bombers to Iran ?

Re: Desert storm Iraqi AF Losses ( claimed vs actual )

Unread postPosted: 13 Aug 2015, 15:51
by oldiaf
I also understood that during the attempted raid of 24 Jan that was carried by 2 Mirages witnessed the destruction of another 2 Mirages on the ground 2 days earlier that were being prepared for the mission and another one the day before the operation.
Also I am confused about the refuelling two aircrafts wether they were another 2 Mirages or MiG-23s as witnessed by the Americans.

Re: Desert storm Iraqi AF Losses ( claimed vs actual )

Unread postPosted: 13 Aug 2015, 16:29
by mixelflick
I'm curious if you know this..

There's a story about some Iraqi aircraft (Mig's?) that go sandwiched between a flight of F-14's and F-15's. The story goes that when they got lit up by the F-14's radar, they turned around and elected to fight the F-15's!

True?

And if so, why type of Iraqi aircraft were they?

Re: Desert storm Iraqi AF Losses ( claimed vs actual )

Unread postPosted: 13 Aug 2015, 16:58
by oldiaf
mixelflick wrote:I'm curious if you know this..

There's a story about some Iraqi aircraft (Mig's?) that go sandwiched between a flight of F-14's and F-15's. The story goes that when they got lit up by the F-14's radar, they turned around and elected to fight the F-15's!

True?

And if so, why type of Iraqi aircraft were they?

Never heard about this in DS 1991 but there ia a similar incident in 1999 involved MiG-25s against F-14s and F-15s

Re: Desert storm Iraqi AF Losses ( claimed vs actual )

Unread postPosted: 14 Aug 2015, 02:11
by mixelflick
Never heard about this in DS 1991 but there ia a similar incident in 1999 involved MiG-25s against F-14s and F-15s[/quote]

Really?

Can you tell me more about it?

Re: Desert storm Iraqi AF Losses ( claimed vs actual )

Unread postPosted: 14 Aug 2015, 06:01
by oldiaf
mixelflick wrote:Never heard about this in DS 1991 but there ia a similar incident in 1999 involved MiG-25s against F-14s and F-15s


Really?

Can you tell me more about it?[/quote]
3 or 4 MiG-25 violated the southern No fly zone and engaged a formation of 2 USAF F-15 and 2 USN F-14 , the American planes fired 6 missiles between AMRAAM from the F-15s and Phoenix from the F-14s but the MiG-25s out run them using their high speed.

Re: Desert storm Iraqi AF Losses ( claimed vs actual )

Unread postPosted: 14 Aug 2015, 14:36
by old.iraqi.air.force
oldiaf wrote:3 or 4 MiG-25 violated the southern No fly zone and engaged a formation of 2 USAF F-15 and 2 USN F-14 , the American planes fired 6 missiles between AMRAAM from the F-15s and Phoenix from the F-14s but the MiG-25s out run them using their high speed.

Was four MIG-25s and coalition aircraft fired Sparrow and Phoenix missiles.

Re: Desert storm Iraqi AF Losses ( claimed vs actual )

Unread postPosted: 14 Aug 2015, 14:41
by old.iraqi.air.force
oldiaf wrote:On the 9th day Jan 25 1991 F-117a used GBU-27 bunker buster bombs to penetrate the hardened aircraft shelters. Was the effect of this impacted the Iraqi government to send its aircrafts to Iran ? Probably and probably not , such a move most be planned before but was the destruction of hardened shelters ultimately set the date for such a move ?!
The exodus started on Jan 26 among those flown away 7 Su-25s - these 7 returned from Iran in 2014 / the only Iraqi planes returned by Iran adding to 5 Su-25 second hand from Russia.


It was a political decision of Iraqi government to send its aircrafts to Iran has other political dimensions..

Re: Desert storm Iraqi AF Losses ( claimed vs actual )

Unread postPosted: 14 Aug 2015, 14:54
by old.iraqi.air.force
oldiaf wrote:Jan 26
3 MiG-23s claimed by USAF F-15s, 4 MiG-23s took off from a base in western Iraq, 1 returned to base because of malfunction and 3 proceeded , the F-15s picked them up in classical BVR engagement using AIM-7s
All form Squadron/wing 58/33 :
Draeger - Schiavi - Rodriguez
The next day Jan 27 another 3 MiG-23s were downed by F-15s this time by 2 pilots from squadron/wing 53/36 Denney and Powell, Denney used a sidewinder AIM-9 while Powell used Sparrow AIM-7 , also Powell claimed a Mirage F.1 the same day using AIM-7.
The Iraqis on the other hands claimed that a formation of 3 MiG-23s from squadron 73 took off from H2 Saad Airbase to be repositioned at Balad Bakr Air Base , these 3 planes piloted by Shakir Raihan - Kareem - Amir Hasan . The first 2 get hit by US F-15s and pilots KIA while the third one managed to return to its base .
It is unknown which engagement this one is : the one of 26 or 27 of Jan 1991
What was the purpose of these flights and repositionings ? A better shelters ? A closer base for future AA combat ? A closer base to flow them to Iran later ? Providing escort to escaping bombers to Iran ?


On Jan 26-1991 we lost two MIG-23MLs, the formation was consists by Major Shaker Rehan Hammoud and Capt.Kareem Hassan and Capt.Faisal all the three pilots from 73Sq, took off from Saad AB to evacuate the aircraft to al-Bakr AB, first Major Shaker Rehan the formation leader was shot down and KIA, then in visual contact Capt.Kareem clashed with a group of F-15s but later shot down and KIA, Capt.Faisal managed of disengage and back to land safely.
One Jan 27-1991 Iraqi Mirage flown by Capt.Thaer al Sieed 79Sq hit a hills formation due to the low altitude and air robe “there was no threat at all”.
This all Iraqi AF losses between 26 and 27 January 1991
Major Shaker Rehan photo
Image

Re: Desert storm Iraqi AF Losses ( claimed vs actual )

Unread postPosted: 14 Aug 2015, 15:17
by old.iraqi.air.force
oldiaf wrote:I also understood that during the attempted raid of 24 Jan that was carried by 2 Mirages witnessed the destruction of another 2 Mirages on the ground 2 days earlier that were being prepared for the mission and another one the day before the operation.
Also I am confused about the refuelling two aircrafts wether they were another 2 Mirages or MiG-23s as witnessed by the Americans.

Yes two Mirages destroyed on the ground before, on January 24 the airbase was under attack between 0900 and 0930. No MiG-23s involved in this mission, first they did took off at 0945 but one of the tanker aircraft (Mirage) got a malfunction and force them to turn back to airbase, after switch it with another Mirage they flew again at 1149.

Copy of the warrant commissioning
Image
Used route
Image

Re: Desert storm Iraqi AF Losses ( claimed vs actual )

Unread postPosted: 14 Aug 2015, 15:32
by oldiaf
old.iraqi.air.force wrote:
oldiaf wrote:Jan 26
3 MiG-23s claimed by USAF F-15s, 4 MiG-23s took off from a base in western Iraq, 1 returned to base because of malfunction and 3 proceeded , the F-15s picked them up in classical BVR engagement using AIM-7s
All form Squadron/wing 58/33 :
Draeger - Schiavi - Rodriguez
The next day Jan 27 another 3 MiG-23s were downed by F-15s this time by 2 pilots from squadron/wing 53/36 Denney and Powell, Denney used a sidewinder AIM-9 while Powell used Sparrow AIM-7 , also Powell claimed a Mirage F.1 the same day using AIM-7.
The Iraqis on the other hands claimed that a formation of 3 MiG-23s from squadron 73 took off from H2 Saad Airbase to be repositioned at Balad Bakr Air Base , these 3 planes piloted by Shakir Raihan - Kareem - Amir Hasan . The first 2 get hit by US F-15s and pilots KIA while the third one managed to return to its base .
It is unknown which engagement this one is : the one of 26 or 27 of Jan 1991
What was the purpose of these flights and repositionings ? A better shelters ? A closer base for future AA combat ? A closer base to flow them to Iran later ? Providing escort to escaping bombers to Iran ?


On Jan 26-1991 we lost two MIG-23MLs, the formation was consists by Major Shaker Rehan Hammoud and Capt.Kareem Hassan and Capt.Faisal all the three pilots from 73Sq, took off from Saad AB to evacuate the aircraft to al-Bakr AB, first Major Shaker Rehan the formation leader was shot down and KIA, then in visual contact Capt.Kareem clashed with a group of F-15s but later shot down and KIA, Capt.Faisal managed of disengage and back to land safely.
One Jan 27-1991 Iraqi Mirage flown by Capt.Thaer al Sieed 79Sq hit a hills formation due to the low altitude and air robe “there was no threat at all”.
This all Iraqi AF losses between 26 and 27 January 1991
Major Shaker Rehan photo
Image

What was the purpose of these flights wether the MiG-23s or the Mirage ?? Fate of the Mirage pilot ?

Re: Desert storm Iraqi AF Losses ( claimed vs actual )

Unread postPosted: 14 Aug 2015, 15:51
by old.iraqi.air.force
oldiaf wrote: What was the purpose of these flights wether the MiG-23s or the Mirage ?? Fate of the Mirage pilot ?

No, but the MIG-23s can't fly long distance such the F-1 and most the Iraqi MIG-23s wasn't capable to air refueling.

Re: Desert storm Iraqi AF Losses ( claimed vs actual )

Unread postPosted: 14 Aug 2015, 16:16
by oldiaf
old.iraqi.air.force wrote:
oldiaf wrote: What was the purpose of these flights wether the MiG-23s or the Mirage ?? Fate of the Mirage pilot ?

No, but the MIG-23s can't fly long distance such the F-1 and most the Iraqi MIG-23s wasn't capable to air refueling.

I mean why these MiG-23s and Mirage took off ?? To engage coalition aircrafts or to escape to Iran ?

Re: Desert storm Iraqi AF Losses ( claimed vs actual )

Unread postPosted: 14 Aug 2015, 17:30
by oldiaf
On Jan 28 a Flight of 4 F-15 from the 32 TFG spotted 4 MiG-23s appeoaching the Iranian borders , one of the F-15s pilots ( Donald Wateous engaged the last MiG-23 with AIM-7s , he used all his 4 sparrows till hit the MiG-23 , he even jettisoned his external tanks to gain speed but on doing so he lost part of his wing !! One of the other F-15s took a picture to the damaged wing and Wateous F-15 was fortunate to make it back to base ... He didn't engaged the other 3 MiG-23s despite having good tone with his AIM-9 sidewinders but the MiG-23s are already now crossed into the Iranian air space.
The next day Jan 29 another MiG-23 was picked up by F-15 piloted by David Rose from the 58 TFS/ 33 TFW using AIM-7

Re: Desert storm Iraqi AF Losses ( claimed vs actual )

Unread postPosted: 15 Aug 2015, 17:40
by oldiaf
Why the Iraqi AF was evacuating Saad AB ? And is this the first or only attempt to evacuate the base ? I understood from previous sorties flown at the first day that Mirages also present and conducted sorties from this base , did they tried to evacuate too ? Was the Mirage that hit the hill was in evacuation flight too ?

Re: Desert storm Iraqi AF Losses ( claimed vs actual )

Unread postPosted: 15 Aug 2015, 17:41
by oldiaf
What was the type of the MiG-23s that were escaping to Iran ML or BN ?

Re: Desert storm Iraqi AF Losses ( claimed vs actual )

Unread postPosted: 15 Aug 2015, 18:00
by oldiaf
I also have aquestion regarding the first day : What was the thinking of the Iraqi AF by sending old MiG-21s against modern US aircrafts ?!!

Re: Desert storm Iraqi AF Losses ( claimed vs actual )

Unread postPosted: 15 Aug 2015, 18:08
by oldiaf
These 3 MiG-23ML were evacuating from Saad AB to Bakr AB and two were downed ... Were they armed ??

Re: Desert storm Iraqi AF Losses ( claimed vs actual )

Unread postPosted: 17 Aug 2015, 05:26
by tomcooper
oldiaf wrote:
mixelflick wrote:I'm curious if you know this..

There's a story about some Iraqi aircraft (Mig's?) that go sandwiched between a flight of F-14's and F-15's. The story goes that when they got lit up by the F-14's radar, they turned around and elected to fight the F-15's!

True?

And if so, why type of Iraqi aircraft were they?

Never heard about this in DS 1991...

Oh really...?

This happened on the morning of 17 January 1991, and ended with the loss of two MiG-21s (not 'F-7Bs' as you claim: contrary to what you - or your 'documents' - claim, No. 47 Squadron IrAF never operated 'F-7Bs').

But, no F-15s were involved. What actually happened was that a quartet of MiG-21s took off from H-3 and flew in NW direction. F-14s (from VF-32) that flew in front of the strike package from USS Saratoga went after them.

Then the other two MiGs took off: F-14s turned around but were too far away and MiGs were now between them and the F/A-18s (from VF-81). Nevertheless, the MiGs turned away from Tomcats, i.e. towards the south - and got smacked by Hornets instead.

Re: Desert storm Iraqi AF Losses ( claimed vs actual )

Unread postPosted: 17 Aug 2015, 10:23
by oldiaf
tomcooper wrote:
oldiaf wrote:
mixelflick wrote:I'm curious if you know this..

There's a story about some Iraqi aircraft (Mig's?) that go sandwiched between a flight of F-14's and F-15's. The story goes that when they got lit up by the F-14's radar, they turned around and elected to fight the F-15's!

True?

And if so, why type of Iraqi aircraft were they?

Never heard about this in DS 1991...

Oh really...?

This happened on the morning of 17 January 1991, and ended with the loss of two MiG-21s (not 'F-7Bs' as you claim: contrary to what you - or your 'documents' - claim, No. 47 Squadron IrAF never operated 'F-7Bs').

But, no F-15s were involved. What actually happened was that a quartet of MiG-21s took off from H-3 and flew in NW direction. F-14s (from VF-32) that flew in front of the strike package from USS Saratoga went after them.

Then the other two MiGs took off: F-14s turned around but were too far away and MiGs were now between them and the F/A-18s (from VF-81). Nevertheless, the MiGs turned away from Tomcats, i.e. towards the south - and got smacked by Hornets instead.

What was the Iraqis thinking to fly the old MiG-21s in 1991 ?

Re: Desert storm Iraqi AF Losses ( claimed vs actual )

Unread postPosted: 17 Aug 2015, 12:17
by oldiaf
On Jan 26 while transporting the aircrafts to Iran , Su-24 from squadron 121 hit a mountain in Iran pilot killed , co-pilot fate unknown.
Another Su-24 from squadron 119 also hit a mountain pilot killed but co-pilot managed to eject.
Both Planes were heading from Bakr ( Balad AB ) toward Karmanshah AB.

Re: Desert storm Iraqi AF Losses ( claimed vs actual )

Unread postPosted: 17 Aug 2015, 12:54
by oldiaf
old.iraqi.air.force wrote:
oldiaf wrote:I also understood that during the attempted raid of 24 Jan that was carried by 2 Mirages witnessed the destruction of another 2 Mirages on the ground 2 days earlier that were being prepared for the mission and another one the day before the operation.
Also I am confused about the refuelling two aircrafts wether they were another 2 Mirages or MiG-23s as witnessed by the Americans.

Yes two Mirages destroyed on the ground before, on January 24 the airbase was under attack between 0900 and 0930. No MiG-23s involved in this mission, first they did took off at 0945 but one of the tanker aircraft (Mirage) got a malfunction and force them to turn back to airbase, after switch it with another Mirage they flew again at 1149.

Copy of the warrant commissioning
Image
Used route
Image

When these first two Mirages destroyed on the ground .. Pilot were inside the aircrafts or the crews were stil preparing the planes ?

Re: Desert storm Iraqi AF Losses ( claimed vs actual )

Unread postPosted: 17 Aug 2015, 21:32
by old.iraqi.air.force
tomcooper wrote:
oldiaf wrote:
mixelflick wrote:I'm curious if you know this..

There's a story about some Iraqi aircraft (Mig's?) that go sandwiched between a flight of F-14's and F-15's. The story goes that when they got lit up by the F-14's radar, they turned around and elected to fight the F-15's!

True?

And if so, why type of Iraqi aircraft were they?

Never heard about this in DS 1991...

Oh really...?

This happened on the morning of 17 January 1991, and ended with the loss of two MiG-21s (not 'F-7Bs' as you claim: contrary to what you - or your 'documents' - claim, No. 47 Squadron IrAF never operated 'F-7Bs').

But, no F-15s were involved. What actually happened was that a quartet of MiG-21s took off from H-3 and flew in NW direction. F-14s (from VF-32) that flew in front of the strike package from USS Saratoga went after them.

Then the other two MiGs took off: F-14s turned around but were too far away and MiGs were now between them and the F/A-18s (from VF-81). Nevertheless, the MiGs turned away from Tomcats, i.e. towards the south - and got smacked by Hornets instead.

Pilots belong to 47Sq but they flew from Almrsnh airfield 22Km Northwest H3 where the F-7B was operated there,such as Major. Ali Hussein Fadel and Capt. Mohammed Saleem from 89Sq air defence but flew two Mirage F1EQ4s to 79Sq Ground attack Squadron and same case with Capt. Saad Nehme F.lieutenant. Hussein Abdul Sattar

Re: Desert storm Iraqi AF Losses ( claimed vs actual )

Unread postPosted: 17 Aug 2015, 22:31
by oldiaf
I don't understand ... The 79 was a ground attack squadron ?! It flow 5 intercept sorties in the first 3 days !

Re: Desert storm Iraqi AF Losses ( claimed vs actual )

Unread postPosted: 19 Aug 2015, 17:55
by oldiaf
On 30 Jan 91 : 2 MiG-25s engaged 2 F-15s with missiles but failed to hit them , the F-15s fired back but also failed to hit , another 4 F-15s tried to cut the way back of the MiG-25s and fired multiple missiles but also failed to achieve a kill .. The F-15s in total fired 10 missiles..

Re: Desert storm Iraqi AF Losses ( claimed vs actual )

Unread postPosted: 19 Aug 2015, 19:08
by oldiaf
The Iraqis claimed that No.2 MiG-25 pilot Capt. Mohammed Jasim Alsamarai / ( Pilot No.1 was Capt. Mahmood Awad ) damaged one of the F-15C , the American deny this and say the plane damaged 2 days earlier one jettison EFT while engaging MiG-23 on route to Iran .

Re: Desert storm Iraqi AF Losses ( claimed vs actual )

Unread postPosted: 19 Aug 2015, 22:05
by old.iraqi.air.force
oldiaf wrote:I don't understand ... The 79 was a ground attack squadron ?! It flow 5 intercept sorties in the first 3 days !

Yes that's because they were in better condition compered with 89Sq in Abu Ubaidah AB which was heavily under attack. Especially those who locate at Saddam airbase till 0600 they got the first airstrike.

Re: Desert storm Iraqi AF Losses ( claimed vs actual )

Unread postPosted: 19 Aug 2015, 22:48
by oldiaf
On Feb 2nd , an F-15 piloted by Greg Masters downed a transport plane IL-76 with Gun !

Re: Desert storm Iraqi AF Losses ( claimed vs actual )

Unread postPosted: 20 Aug 2015, 15:31
by huggy
oldiaf wrote:...and say the plane damaged 2 days earlier one jettison EFT while engaging MiG-23 on route to Iran .

True. The pilot of that F-15 was a FAIP with me and gave me my first checkered in the AF.

Re: Desert storm Iraqi AF Losses ( claimed vs actual )

Unread postPosted: 20 Aug 2015, 15:47
by oldiaf
huggy wrote:
oldiaf wrote:...and say the plane damaged 2 days earlier one jettison EFT while engaging MiG-23 on route to Iran .

True. The pilot of that F-15 was a FAIP with me and gave me my first checkered in the AF.

Muddy ?

Re: Desert storm Iraqi AF Losses ( claimed vs actual )

Unread postPosted: 21 Aug 2015, 16:03
by oldiaf
On April 6th 2 Su-25s downed on their way to Iran also with them 2 MiG-21 were providing air cover to them - also downed , the Pilot who destroyed the MiG-21s was Dietz while the one who downed the Su-25s was Hehemann .. Both used Sidewinders and they were from 36/58 .
Also on this date an A-10 piloted by Swain destroyed a helicopter Bo-105 using Gun . It was fro m706 TFS
Also an F-14 from VF-1 piloted by Bruce and Mcelrat also destroyed a Helicopter Mi-8 using Sidewinder

Re: Desert storm Iraqi AF Losses ( claimed vs actual )

Unread postPosted: 23 Aug 2015, 01:25
by old.iraqi.air.force
oldiaf wrote:I also have aquestion regarding the first day : What was the thinking of the Iraqi AF by sending old MiG-21s against modern US aircrafts ?!!

The purpose of sending them was ambush, tow MIG-29s from H3 delay in the take-off should fly right behind them.

Re: Desert storm Iraqi AF Losses ( claimed vs actual )

Unread postPosted: 23 Aug 2015, 01:30
by oldiaf
old.iraqi.air.force wrote:
oldiaf wrote:I also have aquestion regarding the first day : What was the thinking of the Iraqi AF by sending old MiG-21s against modern US aircrafts ?!!

The purpose of sending them was ambush, two MIG-29s from H3 delay in the take-off should fly right behind them.

And when they learned about what happened to them they aborted the mission I guess

Re: Desert storm Iraqi AF Losses ( claimed vs actual )

Unread postPosted: 23 Aug 2015, 01:48
by old.iraqi.air.force
oldiaf wrote:I mean why these MiG-23s and Mirage took off ?? To engage coalition aircrafts or to escape to Iran ?

The MIG-23s evacuated to another base, the Mirage was on it's way to Iran.
oldiaf wrote:What was the type of the MiG-23s that were escaping to Iran ML or BN ?

Yes it was BN
oldiaf wrote:These 3 MiG-23ML were evacuating from Saad AB to Bakr AB and two were downed ... Were they armed ??

Not sure but MIG-23s pilots said to me they did clashed with no more details..
oldiaf wrote:On Jan 26 while transporting the aircrafts to Iran , Su-24 from squadron 121 hit a mountain in Iran pilot killed , co-pilot fate unknown.
Another Su-24 from squadron 119 also hit a mountain pilot killed but co-pilot managed to eject.
Both Planes were heading from Bakr ( Balad AB ) toward Karmanshah AB.

The first one led by Capt. Mohammed Ali Abdullah Mafraji Squander 121 Al-Baker AB crashed at Kermanshah Mountains due to poor visibility.
The second one crashed on Kermanshah airbase runway his Co-pilot said that he meant to crash the plan preferred not to be delivered to Iran (both eject safely).
oldiaf wrote:On Feb 2nd , an F-15 piloted by Greg Masters downed a transport plane IL-76 with Gun !

No Il-76 shot down during DS 1991 as Squadron 33 members confirmed to me.

Re: Desert storm Iraqi AF Losses ( claimed vs actual )

Unread postPosted: 23 Aug 2015, 01:53
by oldiaf
What about the MiG-23s of Jan 28 and 29 ?

Re: Desert storm Iraqi AF Losses ( claimed vs actual )

Unread postPosted: 23 Aug 2015, 02:13
by old.iraqi.air.force
oldiaf wrote:On April 6th 2 Su-25s downed on their way to Iran

The war stop before April..
oldiaf wrote: 2 Su-25s downed on their way to Iran also with them 2 MiG-21 were providing air cover to them - also downed , the Pilot who destroyed the MiG-21s was Dietz while the one who downed the Su-25s was Hehemann .. Both used Sidewinders and they were from 36/58 .

Yes we lost two SU-25 during the evacuation process both aircraft from Habbaniyah AB, but honestly i couldn't find any one knows more about losses of MIG-21s (so give me time to make double check with this subject)..
oldiaf wrote:Also on this date an A-10 piloted by Swain destroyed a helicopter Bo-105 using Gun . It was fro m706 TFS
Also an F-14 from VF-1 piloted by Bruce and Mcelrat also destroyed a Helicopter Mi-8 using Sidewinder

Yes that's right and also there is Mi-8 helicopter crashed and both pilots killed, two days after the end of the war (caused by U.S F-15 pass very low on it while the helicopter was just took-off and became out of control)...

Re: Desert storm Iraqi AF Losses ( claimed vs actual )

Unread postPosted: 23 Aug 2015, 02:43
by mixelflick
I wonder what the psyche was of the Iraqi pilots..

Meaning, did they think they stood a chance or were they just up there doing their job? I'm sure they felt overmatched in many respects (C3I), but they also had the home field advantage/ground control intercept radar.

Overall, sounds like a valiant effort and some gutsy tactics/flying, and fighting to protect their country.

Re: Desert storm Iraqi AF Losses ( claimed vs actual )

Unread postPosted: 23 Aug 2015, 09:33
by oldiaf
Yes its my mistake ... It was February 6

Re: Desert storm Iraqi AF Losses ( claimed vs actual )

Unread postPosted: 23 Aug 2015, 21:52
by old.iraqi.air.force
mixelflick wrote:I wonder what the psyche was of the Iraqi pilots..

Meaning, did they think they stood a chance or were they just up there doing their job? I'm sure they felt overmatched in many respects (C3I), but they also had the home field advantage/ground control intercept radar.

Overall, sounds like a valiant effort and some gutsy tactics/flying, and fighting to protect their country.

mixelflick If you want to destroy any army just give it's led to political leadership and this what happened to whole Iraqi army in 1991, However Iraqi air force commanders they calculated correctly and accurately and tolled president Saddam Hussein facing United States inevitable loss "no way to victory" and they have made alternative proposals (which we can't say everything on public maybe i should pm you) but Saddam Hussein didn't listen and relied too much on his daughter's husband hypotheses Mr.Hussein Kamel, and gone beyond all of that even when he miscalculations the timing of the starting military operations when President Bush gave last warning to him..
Trust me Iraqi air force did more than what can it do in that war and Iraqi pilots felt they must to stood and make a chance to do their job, but at the end the war was larger than what is available in their hands..

Re: Desert storm Iraqi AF Losses ( claimed vs actual )

Unread postPosted: 24 Aug 2015, 00:46
by oldiaf
old.iraqi.air.force wrote:
mixelflick wrote:I wonder what the psyche was of the Iraqi pilots..

Meaning, did they think they stood a chance or were they just up there doing their job? I'm sure they felt overmatched in many respects (C3I), but they also had the home field advantage/ground control intercept radar.

Overall, sounds like a valiant effort and some gutsy tactics/flying, and fighting to protect their country.

mixelflick If you want to destroy any army just give it's led to political leadership and this what happened to whole Iraqi army in 1991, However Iraqi air force commanders they calculated correctly and accurately and tolled president Saddam Hussein facing United States inevitable loss "no way to victory" and they have made alternative proposals (which we can't say everything on public maybe i should pm you) but Saddam Hussein didn't listen and relied too much on his daughter's husband hypotheses Mr.Hussein Kamel, and gone beyond all of that even when he miscalculations the timing of the starting military operations when President Bush gave last warning to him..
Trust me Iraqi air force did more than what can it do in that war and Iraqi pilots felt they must to stood and make a chance to do their job, but at the end the war was larger than what is available in their hands..

According to the archive of Iraqi AF .... One of the plans was to attack an American aircraft carrier on the cost of losing 34 planes

Re: Desert storm Iraqi AF Losses ( claimed vs actual )

Unread postPosted: 24 Aug 2015, 00:54
by oldiaf
The 3 downed on Jan 26 or the 2 downed on Jan 28/29 were BN ?
Squadron 73 was operating BN or ML ?
MiG-23 squadrons were only 63 and 73 ?

Re: Desert storm Iraqi AF Losses ( claimed vs actual )

Unread postPosted: 26 Aug 2015, 06:41
by tomcooper
old.iraqi.air.force wrote:Pilots belong to 47Sq but they flew from Almrsnh airfield 22Km Northwest H3 where the F-7B was operated there...
...sigh... (indeed: :faceslap:)

For most of their 'career' in Iraq, F-7Bs served as advanced trainers - either at Tikrit or at H-2.

Nobody really liked them. F-7Bs were generally of such poor quality, so trouble-prone, and so poorly armed, the IrAF even left Soviets overhaul six old MiG-21Fs (Fs!!! - admittedly, all were brought to F-13 standard before delivery to Iraq, back in 1966) because these were more reliable but F-7Bs.

But you want to dream about No. 47 Squadron - probably the proudest (and most successful) IrAF MiG-21-unit of the 1980s (and the first one to equip its MiG-21bis' with Matra R.550 Magic Mk.1 AAMs) - fly F-7Bs in 1991...?

such as Major. Ali Hussein Fadel and Capt. Mohammed Saleem from 89Sq air defence but flew two Mirage F1EQ4s to 79Sq Ground attack Squadron and same case with Capt. Saad Nehme F.lieutenant. Hussein Abdul Sattar
...what do you actually want to say here?

BTW, No. 79 Squadron was an interceptor unit. It was established as an interceptor unit in 1981, and didn't fly a single ground attack sortie until February 1984. Reason: Mirage F.1EQ/EQ-2 (original version acquired by Iraq in period 1979-1982) was a pure interceptor with minimal air-to-ground capability - and No. 79 Squadron was equipped with this variant.

The unit received a - secondary - ground attack role only in 1984, when deployed to attack IRGC troops that were advancing through Howeizeh Marshes using (Saudi-supplied) Mk.84 bombs equipped with (South-African-made) Jupiter fuzes.

It was latter units that received different other roles, because they were equipped with Mirage F.1EQ-4s (multi-role), EQ-5s (anti-ship) and EQ-6s (multi-role, with anti-ship capability included, but foremost 'important' for compatibility with Super 530D MRAAM).

Arguably, No. 79 was partially re-equipped with few examples of latter variants, i.e. with few Mirage F.1EQ/EQ-2s upgraded to EQ-6 standard during repairs and overhauls in France (1988-1990). But, air defence remained its primary role in 1991 too.

All of this should be something a 'former Iraqi Mirage pilot' should know by his heart...

Re: Desert storm Iraqi AF Losses ( claimed vs actual )

Unread postPosted: 26 Aug 2015, 06:50
by tomcooper
oldiaf wrote:I also have aquestion regarding the first day : What was the thinking of the Iraqi AF by sending old MiG-21s against modern US aircrafts ?!!

There were still about 60 MiG-21s in service with four squadrons as of 1991.

What the IrAF thought about them? They were obsolete, sure, and most were worn out too (nearing the stage at which they would require complete overhaul to remain in service; MiG-21 simply has a very limited 'shelf life'), but they were dependable, simple to maintain and operate, beloved and highly popular too. And, due to the simplicity of their avionics, they could scramble at a very short note (faster than Mirage F.1, for example.

So, they remained in service: not as 'first line of defence', but still in service, and as such they were used when there was that one opportunity.

In comparison: F-7B was never used in combat.

Re: Desert storm Iraqi AF Losses ( claimed vs actual )

Unread postPosted: 26 Aug 2015, 06:53
by tomcooper
oldiaf wrote:The 3 downed on Jan 26 or the 2 downed on Jan 28/29 were BN ?
Squadron 73 was operating BN or ML ?
MiG-23 squadrons were only 63 and 73 ?

There was only one MiG-23BN unit: No. 49 Squadron (this unit had a reputation of something like 'punishment legion', i.e. was mainly staffed by pilots of suspected loyalty).

MiG-23MLs were flown by three units (No. 73 was the first, followed by No. 63 and No. 93).

The other two MiG-23-units were No. 39 Squadron (re-equipped with MiG-29s in 1988-1990 period) and No. 59 Squadron (which served as OCU and was equipped with a mix of MiG-23MS, MiG-23MFs, and MiG-23UBs).

Re: Desert storm Iraqi AF Losses ( claimed vs actual )

Unread postPosted: 26 Aug 2015, 12:12
by oldiaf
tomcooper wrote:
oldiaf wrote:The 3 downed on Jan 26 or the 2 downed on Jan 28/29 were BN ?
Squadron 73 was operating BN or ML ?
MiG-23 squadrons were only 63 and 73 ?

There was only one MiG-23BN unit: No. 49 Squadron (this unit had a reputation of something like 'punishment legion', i.e. was mainly staffed by pilots of suspected loyalty).

MiG-23MLs were flown by three units (No. 73 was the first, followed by No. 63 and No. 93).

The other two MiG-23-units were No. 39 Squadron (re-equipped with MiG-29s in 1988-1990 period) and No. 59 Squadron (which served as OCU and was equipped with a mix of MiG-23MS, MiG-23MFs, and MiG-23UBs).

Total MiG-23s was 53 at 91 in all these 5 squadrons or exluding BN ?
How many BN at 1991 ?
2002 plot to kill Saddam was real ? Squadron 49 ? Who was the pilot ? And how he knew about that Saddam was at tharthar lake palace ?

Re: Desert storm Iraqi AF Losses ( claimed vs actual )

Unread postPosted: 26 Aug 2015, 18:59
by oldiaf
On Feb 7 :
Rick Parson downed Su-7 with his F-15 from 58/33 using AIM-7 while his wingman Anthony Murphy downed 2 Su-22 also using AIM-7s ... These 3 SUs were flying to Iran.
Also on the same day : Randy May flying also F-15 from 22/36 downed a Mi-24 using AIM-7

Re: Desert storm Iraqi AF Losses ( claimed vs actual )

Unread postPosted: 27 Aug 2015, 16:02
by oldiaf
Feb 11 1991
2 F-15 from 525/36 flown by Steve Dingee and Mark Mckenzie shut downed 2 Mi-8 helicopters using AIM-7

Re: Desert storm Iraqi AF Losses ( claimed vs actual )

Unread postPosted: 28 Aug 2015, 11:01
by tomcooper
oldiaf wrote:Total MiG-23s was 53 at 91 in all these 5 squadrons or exluding BN ?
53 - excluding BNs. No clue how many of latter were still around.

2002 plot to kill Saddam was real ? Squadron 49 ? Who was the pilot ? And how he knew about that Saddam was at tharthar lake palace ?
Really, no idea.

I only recall there was a coup attempt, nothing else.

On Feb 7 :
Rick Parson downed Su-7...
Last Su-7s were withdrawn from service in the early 1980s. The last operational examples served with...I think it was No. 8 Squadron at the start of the war with Iran. That unit was an OCU for Su-22-squadrons.

In 1981 or 1982, Egyptians dumped about 30+ of their remaining Su-7BMKs in Iraq, but these were all badly worn out and used as decoys only.

Overall, IrAF was never very pleased about the Su-7: it might have ordered as many as 100, back in the late 1960s, but collected less than 40. It was happy to replace it with Su-20s and then Su-22 at the first opportunity.

Re: Desert storm Iraqi AF Losses ( claimed vs actual )

Unread postPosted: 28 Aug 2015, 20:49
by oldiaf
Feb 14 1991
The famous GBU-10 Kill .. An F-15E from 335/4 Crew Bennet / Bakke downed an Iraqi helicopter with LGB , F-15E locked it while it was on the ground , but the Helicopter took-off but the LBG hit it nontheless ... The accident witnessed by SOF team on the ground

Re: Desert storm Iraqi AF Losses ( claimed vs actual )

Unread postPosted: 30 Aug 2015, 17:38
by oldiaf
Feb 15 1991
Todd Sheehy flying A-10A from 511 TFS / 10 TFW downed a helicopter Mi-8 using GAU-8 30 mm gun

Re: Desert storm Iraqi AF Losses ( claimed vs actual )

Unread postPosted: 03 Sep 2015, 11:56
by nikolaos
Excellent thread.
Will the presentation of Iraqi sorties by day be continued?

Re: Desert storm Iraqi AF Losses ( claimed vs actual )

Unread postPosted: 03 Sep 2015, 12:14
by mixelflick
oldiaf wrote:Feb 15 1991
Todd Sheehy flying A-10A from 511 TFS / 10 TFW downed a helicopter Mi-8 using GAU-8 30 mm gun


God, now THIS would have been something to see! Maybe even worse than an A-10 using a GAU-8 to take out... a Taliban motorcyclist! You absolutely have to see this, to believe it...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MX3eEGtFzXs

Re: Desert storm Iraqi AF Losses ( claimed vs actual )

Unread postPosted: 03 Sep 2015, 13:41
by oldiaf
nikolaos wrote:Excellent thread.
Will the presentation of Iraqi sorties by day be continued?

Yes ... As far I have of Informations

Re: Desert storm Iraqi AF Losses ( claimed vs actual )

Unread postPosted: 03 Sep 2015, 13:52
by oldiaf
After establishing the north and south No fly zones ... The Iraqi AF didn't recognize these zones and begin penetrating both zones ... So on March 20 1991 ... Su-22 penetrated the northern no fly zone ... An a F-15C on CAP from 22 TFS/33 TFW Pilot John Doneski used AIM-9M to shoot it down ...

Re: Desert storm Iraqi AF Losses ( claimed vs actual )

Unread postPosted: 03 Sep 2015, 13:59
by oldiaf
2 days later on March 22 another Su-22 penetrated the northern zone this one was downed by F-15C Thomas Dietz using a sidewinder .. A trainer aircraft PC-9 was accompanying the Su-22 ... Its pilot after realizing he was cornered by 2 F-15C ejected by himself !! The kill was awarded to Bob Hehemann ... Both Dietz and Hehemann were from 53 TFS / 36 TFW

Re: Desert storm Iraqi AF Losses ( claimed vs actual )

Unread postPosted: 04 Sep 2015, 12:41
by mixelflick
Geez..

One wonders what the fear factor is now, after F-15's have been so dominant. I understand the Iraq situation is different, but I mean among other foreign pilots. Other than upgraded Flankers, I'd think it'd be high?

Has any foreign nation bought the Mig-29 upgrades, meaning Mig-35ish like performance?

Re: Desert storm Iraqi AF Losses ( claimed vs actual )

Unread postPosted: 04 Sep 2015, 13:02
by oldiaf
On Dec. 25 1992 Christmas day ... F-16D shut downed a MiG-25PDS squadron 97 ... This was the first AA Kill scorred by F-16 and the first kill by AIM-120 ... The MiG-25 pilot ejected safely

Re: Desert storm Iraqi AF Losses ( claimed vs actual )

Unread postPosted: 04 Sep 2015, 13:03
by oldiaf
Jan 17 1993 ( 2 years since DS ) ... Another F-16 scorred a kill ... This time against MiG-23ML ... Initially reported to be MiG-29

Re: Desert storm Iraqi AF Losses ( claimed vs actual )

Unread postPosted: 22 Sep 2015, 01:34
by oldiaf
Is it possible if the Remora ECM pod when installed on MiG-29 .. The MiG-29 would be confused with Mirage F.1EQ ... Because in this case the first Kill scored by Graeter would be on a MiG-29 carrying the Remora over Talha AB while the kill that was shared by the EF-111 and Graeter near H2 is in fact also on Remora carrying aircraft but this time a MiG-2ML confused with Mirage ... This will leave kelk with a kill against a MiG-29 ( without Remora ) from Talha .... I also made a mistake : it was Captain Ismail MiG-29 that was damaged by AIM-7 not Ahmed Husain Hamdan ... Possibly this MiG-29 and his wingman Captain Helal are the 2 MiG-29 claimed by Draeger and Magil over Tamuz AB as their flight was late in the morning but Captain Ismail was only damaged while Captain Helal was not hit.

Re: Desert storm Iraqi AF Losses ( claimed vs actual )

Unread postPosted: 23 Sep 2015, 13:21
by tomcooper
oldiaf wrote:On Dec. 25 1992 Christmas day ... F-16D shut downed a MiG-25PDS squadron 97 ... This was the first AA Kill scorred by F-16 and the first kill by AIM-120 ... The MiG-25 pilot ejected safely

My info is that the MiG-25-pilot was injured during ejection (or when the missile hit, i.e. before ejection), and at least broke a leg. He was out of flying after this combat.

Re: Desert storm Iraqi AF Losses ( claimed vs actual )

Unread postPosted: 23 Sep 2015, 13:26
by oldiaf
tomcooper wrote:
oldiaf wrote:On Dec. 25 1992 Christmas day ... F-16D shut downed a MiG-25PDS squadron 97 ... This was the first AA Kill scorred by F-16 and the first kill by AIM-120 ... The MiG-25 pilot ejected safely

My info is that the MiG-25-pilot was injured during ejection (or when the missile hit, i.e. before ejection), and at least broke a leg. He was out of flying after this combat.

Captain Laith Hashim Thanon ejected and survived but I don't know if he injured or didn't fly again.

Re: Desert storm Iraqi AF Losses ( claimed vs actual )

Unread postPosted: 24 Sep 2015, 14:43
by tomcooper
Talking about MiG-25s - though going quite 'off-topic' now: can you find out the name of IrAF MiG-25-pilot that shot down an IRIAF F-5E in June 1985?

Re: Desert storm Iraqi AF Losses ( claimed vs actual )

Unread postPosted: 25 Sep 2015, 21:07
by oldiaf
Interested table showing some Iraqi perspective about DS losses

Re: Desert storm Iraqi AF Losses ( claimed vs actual )

Unread postPosted: 25 Sep 2015, 22:23
by old.iraqi.air.force
oldiaf wrote:Interested table showing some Iraqi perspective about DS losses

This table informal and published without checking.

Re: Desert storm Iraqi AF Losses ( claimed vs actual )

Unread postPosted: 28 Sep 2015, 11:36
by nikolaos
Is there a similar list from the Iraqi AF which can be considered formal?

Re: Desert storm Iraqi AF Losses ( claimed vs actual )

Unread postPosted: 03 Oct 2015, 01:23
by oldiaf
nikolaos wrote:Is there a similar list from the Iraqi AF which can be considered formal?

Formal list mentions 23 ...

Re: Desert storm Iraqi AF Losses ( claimed vs actual )

Unread postPosted: 03 Oct 2015, 09:44
by nikolaos
23 only? The allies claimed much more!
However the list you posted above has 27 losses with black color, should be considered confirmed one way or another?
If not which claims are to be dismissed?

Re: Desert storm Iraqi AF Losses ( claimed vs actual )

Unread postPosted: 03 Oct 2015, 11:22
by oldiaf
nikolaos wrote:23 only? The allies claimed much more!
However the list you posted above has 27 losses with black color, should be considered confirmed one way or another?
If not which claims are to be dismissed?

The list is informal ... We are working on the original formal list ... Remember some of the losses claimed by US is confirmed by Iraqi AF but attributed to other reasons than being shut downed !! Like the Mirage F.1EQ shut downed by US F-15C on Jan 27 .. The Iraqi AF claims it hits the ground ... .... Feeling Deja vu with Iraq - Iran war !!

Re: Desert storm Iraqi AF Losses ( claimed vs actual )

Unread postPosted: 05 Oct 2015, 13:24
by nikolaos
oldiaf wrote:... Feeling Deja vu with Iraq - Iran war !!


What do you mean exactly?