Desert storm Iraqi AF Losses ( claimed vs actual )

Cold war, Korea, Vietnam, and Desert Storm - up to and including for example the A-10, F-15, Mirage 200, MiG-29, and F-18.
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oldiaf

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Unread post14 Aug 2015, 15:32

old.iraqi.air.force wrote:
oldiaf wrote:Jan 26
3 MiG-23s claimed by USAF F-15s, 4 MiG-23s took off from a base in western Iraq, 1 returned to base because of malfunction and 3 proceeded , the F-15s picked them up in classical BVR engagement using AIM-7s
All form Squadron/wing 58/33 :
Draeger - Schiavi - Rodriguez
The next day Jan 27 another 3 MiG-23s were downed by F-15s this time by 2 pilots from squadron/wing 53/36 Denney and Powell, Denney used a sidewinder AIM-9 while Powell used Sparrow AIM-7 , also Powell claimed a Mirage F.1 the same day using AIM-7.
The Iraqis on the other hands claimed that a formation of 3 MiG-23s from squadron 73 took off from H2 Saad Airbase to be repositioned at Balad Bakr Air Base , these 3 planes piloted by Shakir Raihan - Kareem - Amir Hasan . The first 2 get hit by US F-15s and pilots KIA while the third one managed to return to its base .
It is unknown which engagement this one is : the one of 26 or 27 of Jan 1991
What was the purpose of these flights and repositionings ? A better shelters ? A closer base for future AA combat ? A closer base to flow them to Iran later ? Providing escort to escaping bombers to Iran ?


On Jan 26-1991 we lost two MIG-23MLs, the formation was consists by Major Shaker Rehan Hammoud and Capt.Kareem Hassan and Capt.Faisal all the three pilots from 73Sq, took off from Saad AB to evacuate the aircraft to al-Bakr AB, first Major Shaker Rehan the formation leader was shot down and KIA, then in visual contact Capt.Kareem clashed with a group of F-15s but later shot down and KIA, Capt.Faisal managed of disengage and back to land safely.
One Jan 27-1991 Iraqi Mirage flown by Capt.Thaer al Sieed 79Sq hit a hills formation due to the low altitude and air robe “there was no threat at all”.
This all Iraqi AF losses between 26 and 27 January 1991
Major Shaker Rehan photo
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What was the purpose of these flights wether the MiG-23s or the Mirage ?? Fate of the Mirage pilot ?
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old.iraqi.air.force

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Unread post14 Aug 2015, 15:51

oldiaf wrote: What was the purpose of these flights wether the MiG-23s or the Mirage ?? Fate of the Mirage pilot ?

No, but the MIG-23s can't fly long distance such the F-1 and most the Iraqi MIG-23s wasn't capable to air refueling.
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Unread post14 Aug 2015, 16:16

old.iraqi.air.force wrote:
oldiaf wrote: What was the purpose of these flights wether the MiG-23s or the Mirage ?? Fate of the Mirage pilot ?

No, but the MIG-23s can't fly long distance such the F-1 and most the Iraqi MIG-23s wasn't capable to air refueling.

I mean why these MiG-23s and Mirage took off ?? To engage coalition aircrafts or to escape to Iran ?
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Unread post14 Aug 2015, 17:30

On Jan 28 a Flight of 4 F-15 from the 32 TFG spotted 4 MiG-23s appeoaching the Iranian borders , one of the F-15s pilots ( Donald Wateous engaged the last MiG-23 with AIM-7s , he used all his 4 sparrows till hit the MiG-23 , he even jettisoned his external tanks to gain speed but on doing so he lost part of his wing !! One of the other F-15s took a picture to the damaged wing and Wateous F-15 was fortunate to make it back to base ... He didn't engaged the other 3 MiG-23s despite having good tone with his AIM-9 sidewinders but the MiG-23s are already now crossed into the Iranian air space.
The next day Jan 29 another MiG-23 was picked up by F-15 piloted by David Rose from the 58 TFS/ 33 TFW using AIM-7
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Unread post15 Aug 2015, 17:40

Why the Iraqi AF was evacuating Saad AB ? And is this the first or only attempt to evacuate the base ? I understood from previous sorties flown at the first day that Mirages also present and conducted sorties from this base , did they tried to evacuate too ? Was the Mirage that hit the hill was in evacuation flight too ?
Last edited by oldiaf on 15 Aug 2015, 17:50, edited 1 time in total.
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Unread post15 Aug 2015, 17:41

What was the type of the MiG-23s that were escaping to Iran ML or BN ?
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Unread post15 Aug 2015, 18:00

I also have aquestion regarding the first day : What was the thinking of the Iraqi AF by sending old MiG-21s against modern US aircrafts ?!!
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Unread post15 Aug 2015, 18:08

These 3 MiG-23ML were evacuating from Saad AB to Bakr AB and two were downed ... Were they armed ??
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Unread post17 Aug 2015, 05:26

oldiaf wrote:
mixelflick wrote:I'm curious if you know this..

There's a story about some Iraqi aircraft (Mig's?) that go sandwiched between a flight of F-14's and F-15's. The story goes that when they got lit up by the F-14's radar, they turned around and elected to fight the F-15's!

True?

And if so, why type of Iraqi aircraft were they?

Never heard about this in DS 1991...

Oh really...?

This happened on the morning of 17 January 1991, and ended with the loss of two MiG-21s (not 'F-7Bs' as you claim: contrary to what you - or your 'documents' - claim, No. 47 Squadron IrAF never operated 'F-7Bs').

But, no F-15s were involved. What actually happened was that a quartet of MiG-21s took off from H-3 and flew in NW direction. F-14s (from VF-32) that flew in front of the strike package from USS Saratoga went after them.

Then the other two MiGs took off: F-14s turned around but were too far away and MiGs were now between them and the F/A-18s (from VF-81). Nevertheless, the MiGs turned away from Tomcats, i.e. towards the south - and got smacked by Hornets instead.
F-Arba-Ashara!! Yalla, yalla!!
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Unread post17 Aug 2015, 10:23

tomcooper wrote:
oldiaf wrote:
mixelflick wrote:I'm curious if you know this..

There's a story about some Iraqi aircraft (Mig's?) that go sandwiched between a flight of F-14's and F-15's. The story goes that when they got lit up by the F-14's radar, they turned around and elected to fight the F-15's!

True?

And if so, why type of Iraqi aircraft were they?

Never heard about this in DS 1991...

Oh really...?

This happened on the morning of 17 January 1991, and ended with the loss of two MiG-21s (not 'F-7Bs' as you claim: contrary to what you - or your 'documents' - claim, No. 47 Squadron IrAF never operated 'F-7Bs').

But, no F-15s were involved. What actually happened was that a quartet of MiG-21s took off from H-3 and flew in NW direction. F-14s (from VF-32) that flew in front of the strike package from USS Saratoga went after them.

Then the other two MiGs took off: F-14s turned around but were too far away and MiGs were now between them and the F/A-18s (from VF-81). Nevertheless, the MiGs turned away from Tomcats, i.e. towards the south - and got smacked by Hornets instead.

What was the Iraqis thinking to fly the old MiG-21s in 1991 ?
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Unread post17 Aug 2015, 12:17

On Jan 26 while transporting the aircrafts to Iran , Su-24 from squadron 121 hit a mountain in Iran pilot killed , co-pilot fate unknown.
Another Su-24 from squadron 119 also hit a mountain pilot killed but co-pilot managed to eject.
Both Planes were heading from Bakr ( Balad AB ) toward Karmanshah AB.
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oldiaf

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Unread post17 Aug 2015, 12:54

old.iraqi.air.force wrote:
oldiaf wrote:I also understood that during the attempted raid of 24 Jan that was carried by 2 Mirages witnessed the destruction of another 2 Mirages on the ground 2 days earlier that were being prepared for the mission and another one the day before the operation.
Also I am confused about the refuelling two aircrafts wether they were another 2 Mirages or MiG-23s as witnessed by the Americans.

Yes two Mirages destroyed on the ground before, on January 24 the airbase was under attack between 0900 and 0930. No MiG-23s involved in this mission, first they did took off at 0945 but one of the tanker aircraft (Mirage) got a malfunction and force them to turn back to airbase, after switch it with another Mirage they flew again at 1149.

Copy of the warrant commissioning
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Used route
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When these first two Mirages destroyed on the ground .. Pilot were inside the aircrafts or the crews were stil preparing the planes ?
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old.iraqi.air.force

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Unread post17 Aug 2015, 21:32

tomcooper wrote:
oldiaf wrote:
mixelflick wrote:I'm curious if you know this..

There's a story about some Iraqi aircraft (Mig's?) that go sandwiched between a flight of F-14's and F-15's. The story goes that when they got lit up by the F-14's radar, they turned around and elected to fight the F-15's!

True?

And if so, why type of Iraqi aircraft were they?

Never heard about this in DS 1991...

Oh really...?

This happened on the morning of 17 January 1991, and ended with the loss of two MiG-21s (not 'F-7Bs' as you claim: contrary to what you - or your 'documents' - claim, No. 47 Squadron IrAF never operated 'F-7Bs').

But, no F-15s were involved. What actually happened was that a quartet of MiG-21s took off from H-3 and flew in NW direction. F-14s (from VF-32) that flew in front of the strike package from USS Saratoga went after them.

Then the other two MiGs took off: F-14s turned around but were too far away and MiGs were now between them and the F/A-18s (from VF-81). Nevertheless, the MiGs turned away from Tomcats, i.e. towards the south - and got smacked by Hornets instead.

Pilots belong to 47Sq but they flew from Almrsnh airfield 22Km Northwest H3 where the F-7B was operated there,such as Major. Ali Hussein Fadel and Capt. Mohammed Saleem from 89Sq air defence but flew two Mirage F1EQ4s to 79Sq Ground attack Squadron and same case with Capt. Saad Nehme F.lieutenant. Hussein Abdul Sattar
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Unread post17 Aug 2015, 22:31

I don't understand ... The 79 was a ground attack squadron ?! It flow 5 intercept sorties in the first 3 days !
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Unread post19 Aug 2015, 17:55

On 30 Jan 91 : 2 MiG-25s engaged 2 F-15s with missiles but failed to hit them , the F-15s fired back but also failed to hit , another 4 F-15s tried to cut the way back of the MiG-25s and fired multiple missiles but also failed to achieve a kill .. The F-15s in total fired 10 missiles..
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