What if... the MiG-31 had mixed it up with our F-15s

Cold war, Korea, Vietnam, and Desert Storm - up to and including for example the A-10, F-15, Mirage 200, MiG-29, and F-18.
  • Author
  • Message
Offline

oldiaf

Banned

  • Posts: 1434
  • Joined: 05 Aug 2015, 23:28

Unread post22 Sep 2015, 17:38

tomcooper wrote:The story of missiles like AIM-54 or R-33 being made 'to target bombers only' are urban legends. They are made to target aircraft - no matter their type of purpose - of whatever sort the supporting weapons system (AWG-9 and Zaslon, respectivelly) can detect and track.

What makes them 'more suitable to target bombers' are their hefty warheads: these are large enough to ensure destruction of even B-52-type of targets.

This stands in stark contrast to such weapons like AIM-7, R-24/AA-7, R-27/AA-10 or even R-40/AA-5. Especially the latter three have repeatedly failed to shot down such aircraft like B-52s, C-130s, Fokker F.27s or even BAe.125 - because their warheads proved too small (that said, there were cases where B-52s remained airborne even after multiple 'hits' by SA-2s).

BTW, like all other aircraft, including airliners, 'small agile fighters' are flying straight and level for 99,5% of their operational service, so also in combat - and not all the time in tight, 9g turns. Otherwise they would get nowhere.

That said, depending on its energy status, AIM-54 can pull up to 40gs. During testing it proved capable of scoring direct hits on target that were pulling 6g evasive manoeuvres. So, even provided the pilot of targeted aircraft has recognized its attack on time, and began pulling gs to avoid, chances are that the Phoenix is at least going to get close enough for proximity fuzing.

Iraqi MiG-29A damaged B-52G in DS 91 with R-27R without being able to shut it down
Offline

sergei

Banned

  • Posts: 984
  • Joined: 24 Sep 2014, 22:56

Unread post22 Sep 2015, 18:26

oldiaf wrote:
tomcooper wrote:The story of missiles like AIM-54 or R-33 being made 'to target bombers only' are urban legends. They are made to target aircraft - no matter their type of purpose - of whatever sort the supporting weapons system (AWG-9 and Zaslon, respectivelly) can detect and track.

What makes them 'more suitable to target bombers' are their hefty warheads: these are large enough to ensure destruction of even B-52-type of targets.

This stands in stark contrast to such weapons like AIM-7, R-24/AA-7, R-27/AA-10 or even R-40/AA-5. Especially the latter three have repeatedly failed to shot down such aircraft like B-52s, C-130s, Fokker F.27s or even BAe.125 - because their warheads proved too small (that said, there were cases where B-52s remained airborne even after multiple 'hits' by SA-2s).

BTW, like all other aircraft, including airliners, 'small agile fighters' are flying straight and level for 99,5% of their operational service, so also in combat - and not all the time in tight, 9g turns. Otherwise they would get nowhere.

That said, depending on its energy status, AIM-54 can pull up to 40gs. During testing it proved capable of scoring direct hits on target that were pulling 6g evasive manoeuvres. So, even provided the pilot of targeted aircraft has recognized its attack on time, and began pulling gs to avoid, chances are that the Phoenix is at least going to get close enough for proximity fuzing.

Iraqi MiG-29A damaged B-52G in DS 91 with R-27R without being able to shut it down

Size matters :)
Offline
User avatar

tomcooper

Active Member

Active Member

  • Posts: 234
  • Joined: 17 Jul 2014, 10:51
  • Location: Haxbach, Schnurliland

Unread post22 Sep 2015, 18:28

oldiaf wrote:Iraqi MiG-29A damaged B-52G in DS 91 with R-27R without being able to shut it down
That's right.

In other case, an Iraqi MiG-25 required two R-40s to bring down a Fokker F.27 (IrAF thought this would be one of two IRIAF's EC-130H Khoofash ELINT/SIGINT gatherers), and in another two cases: a Cuban-flown Angolan MiG-23ML hit a South African C-130 with two R-24s and failed to bring it down, while another Cuban-flown Angolan MiG-23ML hit a BAe 125 biz-jet with one R-24 that knocked out one engine - but failed to bring it down either.
F-Arba-Ashara!! Yalla, yalla!!
Offline

oldiaf

Banned

  • Posts: 1434
  • Joined: 05 Aug 2015, 23:28

Unread post22 Sep 2015, 19:57

Khdair Ahjab took off from Tammuz AB with his wingman Haitham Mizher ... They went south-west and engaged a group of F-111F north-west Nukhaib area ... Khdair Ahjab fired R-60MK heat seeker and damaged one of these F-111F ( he fired 1 Radar and another heat seeker but both missed ) ... Captain Haitham Mezher tried to engage also but his radar didn't work ... Because their base was under attack by that time .. The GCI ordered them to go to H3 and before reaching Alwaleed/H3 Base they engaged the B-52G with Khdair Ahjab last missile ... Haitham Mizher tried to finish the job but his radar didn't work also ... He thought it must be jammed .. Later he discovered to be on SNP mode which allow search only .. It must be the intense pressure of combat led to this mistake ... Otherwise these F-111F and B-52G would have been downed !
Offline
User avatar

tomcooper

Active Member

Active Member

  • Posts: 234
  • Joined: 17 Jul 2014, 10:51
  • Location: Haxbach, Schnurliland

Unread post23 Sep 2015, 07:28

It's a long (very long, indeed) story, so sufficient to say: MiG-29s semi-finished radar was extremely easy to jam, and when it was jammed, then it was not only 'disturbed', but 'froze'. It didn't work any more. Plus: all of its details were known to US intel already before the type entered service (thanks to Adolf Tolkachev), not to talk about 1991...

So, sorry: while they did fire on one of Aardvaarks, there was no way they could even touch something like EF-111A.

And the R-27 fired at the B-52 proxy-fuzed near one of wing-tips: whatever schrapnel hit that BUFF, was 'eaten' by the 'wing-tip' fuel tank.
F-Arba-Ashara!! Yalla, yalla!!
Offline

sergei

Banned

  • Posts: 984
  • Joined: 24 Sep 2014, 22:56

Unread post23 Sep 2015, 21:37

tomcooper wrote:It's a long (very long, indeed) story, so sufficient to say: MiG-29s semi-finished radar was extremely easy to jam, and when it was jammed, then it was not only 'disturbed', but 'froze'. It didn't work any more. Plus: all of its details were known to US intel already before the type entered service (thanks to Adolf Tolkachev), not to talk about 1991...

So, sorry: while they did fire on one of Aardvaarks, there was no way they could even touch something like EF-111A.

And the R-27 fired at the B-52 proxy-fuzed near one of wing-tips: whatever schrapnel hit that BUFF, was 'eaten' by the 'wing-tip' fuel tank.


MiG-25 in this regard was more successful(mission kill strike group).
Previous

Return to Military Aircraft of the Cold War

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests