What if... the MiG-31 had mixed it up with our F-15s

Cold war, Korea, Vietnam, and Desert Storm - up to and including for example the A-10, F-15, Mirage 200, MiG-29, and F-18.
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mixelflick

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Unread post20 Sep 2014, 01:26

Considering the odds stacked against them these Iraqi pilots had some stones brother.
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deadseal

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Unread post20 Sep 2014, 04:16

crusher?
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neurotech

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Unread post20 Sep 2014, 06:55

mixelflick wrote:Considering the odds stacked against them these Iraqi pilots had some stones brother.

True. This was partially due to the lack of effective EW/RWR on the Iraqi aircraft. Also, the MiG-25 wasn't a particularly agile fighter, but could outrun a (loaded) F-15. The MiG-31 is still a 5G airframe.
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old.iraqi.air.force

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Unread post15 Oct 2014, 22:41

mixelflick wrote:
old.iraqi.air.force wrote:
mixelflick wrote:Can you give me an idea, as to which US aircraft fired what missiles that missed?

At that time we were briefed as Phoenix and sparrow missiles "radar homing" in 1999, as well as that in 1991 was AIM-7.
But i need to contact the actual pilots to make sure again, and i will let know later buddy.


Many thanks! A more helpful board member, there never was..

On a semi-related topic, do you have any information as to F-15's getting "hit" air-to-air? If memory serves, there was at least one. Mig-21/23/29 vs. F-15/16?

I know I'm asking a lot...


I have spoken with them, yes all the 10 the missiles was sparrow AIM-7, Major Alaa was clashed again with coalition aircraft probably was early in1993 and fired missiles on pair F-15's
Details of the incident along with forgetfulness due to long period of time:
He said i fired missile on the F-15 and as you know the r40rd need to keep the target in my ring until contact at the same time the F-15 were try to lock me on, so i decide to fire and break left away from him, which is allowed the F-15 pilot to maneuver and evade the missile or may be the missile damage him because he disengaged as well..
The other incident by Capt Amin took-off from Al-Qadisiyah AB at 1100 AM in mission to pay attention and drag the coalition aircraft away from the AWACS while another MIG-29 take off and do the job with last one, after he climb's above the air base, and reaching the desired height Capt Amin extrusion the extra tank so that he could get the required speed of Mach 2+ and an orientation toward the south, in this moment the MIG-29 took off and toward southwest Razaza lake, and everything was going well, Capt Amin succeeded to guide pair of F-16's over embargo lines 32 and each one fired missile at him, he was at an altitude of 14 km then he pulled up to 18 km and rolled to decline just about 3 km with Mach 2 (all of them crossed sound of barrar twice) which in south said it was such artillery sound..
However my knowledge about that MIG-25 shot down by F-16 1992 was wrong, indeed it was MIG-25PDS and wasn't UB as i was think, it was lead by Captain Laith Hashim Thanon and he managed to eject.
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old.iraqi.air.force

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Unread post15 Oct 2014, 22:52

Forgot to say that one of the engines broken and force the MIG-29 pilot to return back.
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mixelflick

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Unread post16 Oct 2014, 22:02

Thanks so much man, that was a fantastic read.

I really admire these Mig-25 pilots, b/c as stated they have relatively poor EW/Situational Awareness, a less agile aircraft etc.. However, the mach 2+ speed is simply amazing. I know the F-15 can "technically" achieve this, but if I'm not mistaken it's never exceeded mach 1.4 in combat.

Had the Mig-25 had a more robust EW/SA/weapons and avionics, it very well may have been a different result. If and when any foreign pilot bags an F-15, I'm sure he'll be quite celebrated. Not that I'm hoping for that though. I see F-15's around here (MA) all the time. They have some of the latest radar/weapons upgrades, but we lost one a few months back. Pilot was local resident, beautiful wife and 2 girls...
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oldiaf

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Unread post07 Aug 2015, 18:10

old.iraqi.air.force wrote:Forgot to say that one of the engines broken and force the MIG-29 pilot to return back.

Which MiG-29 ??
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old.iraqi.air.force

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Unread post23 Aug 2015, 00:13

oldiaf wrote:Which MiG-29 ??

Assigned to deal with AWACS
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oldiaf

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Unread post17 Sep 2015, 02:15

old.iraqi.air.force wrote:
mixelflick wrote:do you have any information as to F-15's getting "hit" air-to-air? If memory serves, there was at least one. Mig-21/23/29 vs. F-15/16?

I know I'm asking a lot... :mrgreen:

No except operation Samarra (February 30-1991) other F-15s were hit or shot down by SAM unit in DS, but if you were referring to that F-15 which took off from "Turkey-Incirlik Air Base was hit and damage by R-27 during the nineties northern Iraq (as i remember it was 97 or 98 not really sure) it was upgrade Iraqi SAM unit using MIG-29 radar RF and sending the same impulses run of MIG-29 and S-300 TTP, wasn't MIG-29.
There was no air to air engagements with any F-16 during DS, because the tasks assigned to it was mostly south and central of Iraq, and these Iraqi air base was already destroyed from the first night of DS and most Iraqi interceptor located at west followed by the threat at the time, even the air strike on Al-Walid AB by F-16s escort by F-15s.
Feel free if you have any question at any time, you're more than welcome :wink:

F-16s attacked Tammuz AB west of Iraq
http://es.rice.edu/projects/Poli378/Gul ... Week%20One
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madrat

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Unread post17 Sep 2015, 02:25

About the only scenario MiG-31's pose a threat to F-15's is over Syria if Russia brings them into the theater. And the MiG-31's would be watched like hawks in a hen house.
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oldiaf

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Unread post17 Sep 2015, 02:35

madrat wrote:About the only scenario MiG-31's pose a threat to F-15's is over Syria if Russia brings them into the theater. And the MiG-31's would be watched like hawks in a hen house.

F-22 will take them out
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phantasm

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Unread post22 Sep 2015, 01:50

madrat wrote:About the only scenario MiG-31's pose a threat to F-15's is over Syria if Russia brings them into the theater. And the MiG-31's would be watched like hawks in a hen house.



...If they're just out to get the American planes- from a performance standpoint, if perhaps not weapons, the Foxbats would be capable of some very funny interceptor tactics involving it's speed.

Anyway, the Mig -31 does have Phoenix-esque missiles, those could keep the Eagles very busy...
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borg

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Unread post22 Sep 2015, 12:01

Why..?

The R-33M are not meant to target small agile fighters..
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tomcooper

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Unread post22 Sep 2015, 14:47

The story of missiles like AIM-54 or R-33 being made 'to target bombers only' are urban legends. They are made to target aircraft - no matter their type of purpose - of whatever sort the supporting weapons system (AWG-9 and Zaslon, respectivelly) can detect and track.

What makes them 'more suitable to target bombers' are their hefty warheads: these are large enough to ensure destruction of even B-52-type of targets.

This stands in stark contrast to such weapons like AIM-7, R-24/AA-7, R-27/AA-10 or even R-40/AA-5. Especially the latter three have repeatedly failed to shot down such aircraft like B-52s, C-130s, Fokker F.27s or even BAe.125 - because their warheads proved too small (that said, there were cases where B-52s remained airborne even after multiple 'hits' by SA-2s).

BTW, like all other aircraft, including airliners, 'small agile fighters' are flying straight and level for 99,5% of their operational service, so also in combat - and not all the time in tight, 9g turns. Otherwise they would get nowhere.

That said, depending on its energy status, AIM-54 can pull up to 40gs. During testing it proved capable of scoring direct hits on target that were pulling 6g evasive manoeuvres. So, even provided the pilot of targeted aircraft has recognized its attack on time, and began pulling gs to avoid, chances are that the Phoenix is at least going to get close enough for proximity fuzing.
F-Arba-Ashara!! Yalla, yalla!!
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borg

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Unread post22 Sep 2015, 15:28

Back in the days, with rudamentry self defence system, I can see R-33 score a hit on legacy fighters. Under the right condition.

But to day with a modern MAW'S, the pilot get early warning this increase chances to slip away is quite good.
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