MiG-25 gunned down by an F-5?

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mixelflick

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Unread post08 Apr 2020, 12:29

nastle wrote:
mixelflick wrote:Interesting account..

Dunno about you guys, but I couldn't make out any Mig-25 in that gun camera footage. I'm sure a trained eye might, but it just looks like a blob to me. I wonder why his sidewinders didn't fire? Generally speaking, its a lot more reliable a weapon than the AIM-7 and Phoenix IMO.

In any case... I wonder why the Mig-25 didn't just punch his burners an accelerate away when he realized the F-5 was on his tail? Instead, it looks like he tried to maneuver.. not the Mig's forte', and more or less played the F-5's game. If it was me, I would have been up, up and away REAL fast LOL.

so was it a mig-25 RB or PD ?


No clue. Although the pursuing Iranian F-5 pilot would likely be able to tell us. If he was close enough for a guns kill, he was close enough to see underwing stores. If it had missiles, it was a PD. If it didn't, odds are would be an RB. Without his insight into that matter, it's tough to say...
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sferrin

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Unread post08 Apr 2020, 14:15

basher54321 wrote:
nastle wrote:so was it a mig-25 RB or PD


MiG-25RB is the claim both from Cooper and Taghvaee - they seem to have been taking familiar MiG-25RB recon routes - so go with that.


No such thing as a MiG-25E is there - probably a translator s/w error above.


Probably thinking of Foxbat-E. (MiG-25PD)
"There I was. . ."
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nastle

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Unread post09 Apr 2020, 14:23

tomcooper wrote:This happened indeed, on 4 July 1986.

A MiG-25RB that was returning from attack on Tehran was decelerating towards Iraqi border, when caught by two IRIAF F-5E Tiger IIs (flown by Col Mohammad Zare-Nejad and Capt Majid Shabani).

Zare-Nejad caught with the Foxbat as this was underway at an altitude of about 9,000 metres and about Mach 0.9 (Shabani lagged about 700-800 yards behind, but was close enough to see what was going on). He didn't activate his radar in order not to warn the Iraqi. Then his AIM-9s didn't fire because of technical malfunction. Finally, he approached to within 1,000 yards and opened fire with 20mm cannons. The MiG began trailing smoke from the right wing and rapidly descending towards the border. Then the Tigers disengaged because both were short on fuel after a high-speed climb.

Zare-Nejad didn't claim a kill, rather a 'damaged'. But, that Foxbat was written off after making an emergency landing in Iraq. The Iranian intel learned about this and credited him with a kill. As usually, jalous of the regular air force and its success, the IRGC (Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps, better known as 'Pasdaran') 'discredited' this kill several years ago, and forced the IRIAF to 'admit' that it didn't kill any MiG-25 during the entire war, although it did shot down several.

But...the write-off was confirmed by Brig Gen Ahmad Sadik, (IrAF, ret.), co-author of the book
Iraqi Fighters, Camouflage & Markings, 1953-2003. Sadly, Sadik is meanwhile languishing in some Syrian prison...

I found the wreckage of the Foxbat in question (together with three others) - and photographed it - at the dump of ex-Habbaniyah AB, back in March 2006. It still had bomb-shackles under (what was left of) its left wing.

Full story - including interviews with Zare-Nejad and Shabani - will be published later this year, in the book
Iranian Tigers at War: Northrop F-5A/B, F-5E/F and Sub-Variants in Iranian Service since 1966, almost exclusively based on official IRIAF documentation and written by Babak Taghvae.

So, no 'claims & stories', no 'false allegations', but an event confirmed by authoritative sources from both sides of the conflict.


Tom Cooper confirms it was RB

and was returning from attacking iran so its obvious it was not an interceptor
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nastle

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Unread post09 Apr 2020, 14:26

mixelflick wrote:
nastle wrote:
mixelflick wrote:Interesting account..

Dunno about you guys, but I couldn't make out any Mig-25 in that gun camera footage. I'm sure a trained eye might, but it just looks like a blob to me. I wonder why his sidewinders didn't fire? Generally speaking, its a lot more reliable a weapon than the AIM-7 and Phoenix IMO.

In any case... I wonder why the Mig-25 didn't just punch his burners an accelerate away when he realized the F-5 was on his tail? Instead, it looks like he tried to maneuver.. not the Mig's forte', and more or less played the F-5's game. If it was me, I would have been up, up and away REAL fast LOL.

so was it a mig-25 RB or PD ?


No clue. Although the pursuing Iranian F-5 pilot would likely be able to tell us. If he was close enough for a guns kill, he was close enough to see underwing stores. If it had missiles, it was a PD. If it didn't, odds are would be an RB. Without his insight into that matter, it's tough to say...

can the iranian pilot be able to differentiate between the two ? Can his account be trusted ? Obviously shooting down a fighter is much more prestigious than an unarmed recon type

it was returning from attack , so even RB racks would be empty

but RB carried bombs on both fuselage and wings usually
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basher54321

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Unread post09 Apr 2020, 15:14

nastle wrote:can the iranian pilot be able to differentiate between the two ? Can his account be trusted ? Obviously shooting down a fighter is much more prestigious than an unarmed recon type

it was returning from attack , so even RB racks would be empty

but RB carried bombs on both fuselage and wings usually


There is no guarantee any pilot could identify the exact type.

Unless anyone can speak Iranian I would be hard pressed to bother going from the subtitles in that video - that is why I said better sources including Taghvee (who do speak Iranian) have already interviewed Iranian pilots about this incident. The Iranians make out they were able to devise the routes the recon Migs were flying and ambush one on the way back to Iraq.

The best information currently is that it was a MiG-25RB.
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Unread post10 Apr 2020, 17:01

tehrani wrote:New video released on ÈIran F-5 gunned down a Mig-25È. it seems that Mig-25 managed to get back to Iraq




Wondering what was his wingman upto all this time,his missiles failed to launch and he crippled the foxbat with guns and he could have asked him wingie to engage and finish the Foxbat.
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