Late '50s to Early '60s Interceptors

Cold war, Korea, Vietnam, and Desert Storm - up to and including for example the A-10, F-15, Mirage 200, MiG-29, and F-18.
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kamov

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Unread post21 Jan 2010, 20:59

Just wondering why the F94 was even built, or why was the F-89J built? Both aircraft have the same radar, however the 89J does have the edge in Armament!! performance wise the 94 has a slight edge. Just thought it was strange to have two aircraft with the same mission with such similar performance. I can understand if one was like a stop gap measure; kind of like the old F-102..also Killing Two birds with one stone, which was the better aircraft F-102 vs F-101?? Any way I am currently Building models of those 4 aircraft so it just got me wondering.
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Unread post23 Jan 2010, 20:03

Salute!

The F-86D, the F-94 and the F-89 were built for one mission - shoot down pesky Russian bears and Bisons.

The Genie came along and the F-89 carried two on rails under the wings. Also had a slew of rockets in those things that looked like tip tanks.

So USAF went with the F-102 for an "advanced" interceptor. At the time, it would have done well. Two weapon bays for 6 missiles, plus a coupla dozen rockets for a beam attack. radar was decent, and it got better. They also added the IRSTS for the "Fig-8" mod.

Soon, USAF developed the F-106 and the F-101 to carry the load. Then there was the F-104A.

By mid-sixties, the only older plane left was the F-89 in a few Guard units. The F-104 hung around at a few bases, and they and the Deuces went to the Guard, as well. So we had the F-106 and the F-101B for Air Defense. Both carried the Genie, and the F-106 could also carry the AIM-26 nuke-u-lar Falcon.

By late 60's, the handwriting was on the wall. Missiles, not bombers. So ADC went with the dodo birds and dinosaurs. We kept a few units for national airspace reasons, but the feared Russian bear was not a threat any longer.

USAF had not looked too much for pure air defense machines after Korea, so we had the 86D and 89 and 94. Then the Deuce and Dart and VooDoo came along.

I flew the Deuce and the VooDoo, and they were very well-suited for the air defense mission we had then. No dogfighting, just zoom in, take a shot and land, re-arm and go again.

Was a bad time folks, and I am glad we didn't have to use those planes for their intended mission.

Gums sends ...
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"God in your guts, good men at your back, wings that stay on - and Tally Ho!"
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SixerViper

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Unread post11 Feb 2010, 18:33

I can remember being embarrassed that the NoDak Air Guard's F-101s would outdrag our Sixes on takeoff and climbout...
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kamov

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Unread post04 Mar 2010, 23:53

Wow, I would have thought that a 106 would eat a 101s lunch performance wise, I saw one ONCE and only once on its way to Tyndall. i actually got to "wrench" on some F-101s in tech school..... cool looking aircraft.
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madrat

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Unread post05 Mar 2010, 06:41

The F-101 seemed like a huge plane in comparison to the F-106. Plus wasn't the F-101 optimized for flight below 36000 feet where the F-106 was more for the higher altitudes?
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MKopack

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Unread post08 Jul 2010, 17:04

SixerViper wrote:I can remember being embarrassed that the NoDak Air Guard's F-101s would outdrag our Sixes on takeoff and climbout...


The One-O-Wonder was a beast on takeoff and climbout!

Mike
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TC

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Unread post09 Jul 2010, 06:27

Folks, I've renamed this article, as it looks as though we could have lengthy conversations about specific aircraft from this era. I didn't want anyone to be confused by the original title.

Anyway, yes, I too have some fond memories of seeing Voodoos and Sixes taking off. Definitely miss all of the noise that they made on takeoff!
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Unread post19 Jul 2010, 04:39

Salute!

TNX, TC for the update.

'tis true. The VooDoo left the 106 in the dust for climb.

The 106 did very well at 40K and top speed. VooDoo was limited by basic aero and fixed inlets for the motors.

Nevertheless, we could get to 35K in 2 minutes or so from brake release, and continue up to 50K in another minute. Cruise there using one motor in min burner and the other in mil - 1.15 mach or so. Not too shabby.

That was our profile when acting as a high alt tgt for the other guy doing a snap up attack.

The 106 had a great advantage on range when pulling the power back and zipping along at .9 or .95 mach at 40K. Sucker got great miles per gallon there compared with any other USAF jet.

Back to the original thread, huh? As I recalled in first post, the first true interceptor we developed and fielded was the Deuce, then the VooDoo and 104, then the 106.

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discofishing

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Unread post19 Jul 2010, 06:40

"Late '50s to Early '60s Interceptors"

So where is the Phantom in all of this?
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Unread post19 Jul 2010, 17:44

Salute!

The Phantom was a Navy fleet interceptor, that's where.

USAF used it for a multi-role jet for most of its existence.

Gums...
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discofishing

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Unread post20 Jul 2010, 08:18

Gums,

I said that mainly to enter the F-4 into the conversation. It's much more interesting to talk about than those F-one-oh-nothings. ;)
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Prinz_Eugn

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Unread post20 Jul 2010, 20:27

discofishing wrote:Gums,

I said that mainly to enter the F-4 into the conversation. It's much more interesting to talk about than those F-one-oh-nothings. ;)


The F-4 is kinda boring... it's like the F-14. Everyone 'knows' about it. The forgotten aircraft like the Voodoo and Deuce are far more interesting.

Besides, the F-4 is a series of aerodynamic boo-boos just barely overcome by sheer thrust... Go navy?
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Unread post21 Jul 2010, 00:56

You know, the F-101 is interesting. From my admittedly very limited association with it, flying the Voodoo was evidently not for the faint of heart.

After I left NY, Niagara lost a highly experienced ex-Hun driver on a night snap-up. He encountered the notorious F-101 T-tail “pitch-up” and rode it in to Lake Ontario trying to recover. The backseater ejected.

Also, the loop, a most basic fighter maneuver, was a prohibited maneuver in the F-101B/F. Used to take our F-4’s to CFB Chatham or Bagotville for fun occasionally. Had a Chatham CF-101 driver who was used to working with and having some success against the Vermont Guard Air Defense mindset F-4 drivers tell me he wanted to take on 2 clean TAC F-4’s. I said, why not start with just one F-4. Results were predictable.

One of the main aero changes from the F-101 to the F-4 was to get rid of that esthetically pleasing but stupid T-tail. T-tails are for airplanes like the B-727, C-141, C-17 & F-101, which just need to go straight ahead efficiently.

To me though, it appeared that the real drawback to the Voodoo was that you just couldn’t have much fun with it. It was just a job.

The Air Defense Command mission, centering the dot, though not unimportant, was just slightly more exciting than watching paint dry.

OL
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Prinz_Eugn

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Unread post21 Jul 2010, 01:21

I just read a little blurb saying that F-89 crews were often current in more than one aircraft at once... is that true? How did it work?
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Unread post21 Jul 2010, 04:24

Salute!

True, Outlaw, we could climb like hell and go fairly fast, but that's all.

I always liked climbing on a cold night at Grand Forks with burners cooking, slightly unloaded at 30 degrees pitch at 400 knots IAS until .9 mach, then on up. Bunt at 23 K and pick up 1.3 mach, then on up to 50,000 friggin' feet. Total elasped time from brake release? Maybe 3 and a half to 4 minutes.

Basic rule of thumb was 2 gees at 300 knots and another gee for every 50 knots. The thing buffeted in a 30 deg bank at best cruise speed and 35,000 feet.

The pitch up was sudden, and with no big clues if supersonic. Subsonic the thing buffeted like crazy and we got some wing rock andsome yaw excursions. The limiters kept you outta trouble, so I don't understand anyone pitching up unless they were real ham hands and had the stuff turned off.

Nevertheless, the Voodoo was a great plane to help you learn to fly. Deuce was a piece of cake, and all ya had to worry about was a high sink rate when in the flare. Could drive gear up thru wings if not careful.

++++++++++

Besides the F-89, ALL ADC pilots could be current in more than one jet. Unlike TAC, the bosses trusted us. I was flying T-33 tgt missions when i wasn't doing intercepts in the VooDoo. So I had 1,000 hours in less than two years from pilot training.

later,

Gums sends ....

+++++++++
Gums
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"God in your guts, good men at your back, wings that stay on - and Tally Ho!"
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