Comparison by Spurts

New and old developments in aviation technology.
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eloise

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Unread post06 Oct 2020, 04:46

The aero heating of Meteor is 500°C for a few minutes that mean cruising speed around Mach 3.5 for 3-4 minutes ?
motor burn time.PNG

stagnant-temperature-1.png
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eloise

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Unread post06 Oct 2020, 04:51

Su-35 test launch R-37M a few days ago:

EjZ473YUYAAvGL-.jpg

EjZ48bzUcAITHld.jpg
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sprstdlyscottsmn

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Unread post06 Oct 2020, 11:18

Interesting implication that the ASRAAM hits Mach4+
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Unread post06 Oct 2020, 11:36

sprstdlyscottsmn wrote:Interesting implication that the ASRAAM hits Mach4+


True. Maybe the cooling is so good that aerodynamic heating of dome material is not a problem even at those speeds?
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Unread post06 Oct 2020, 17:37

eloise wrote:


Mainly SAM fire control or search radar. There are AARGM-ER available but you can't carry as many AARGM-ER as Meteor and with a ramjet engine, Meteor can sustain high supersonic speed for longer period of time.

What basis are you using to suggest that Meteor is faster (or faster longer) than AARGM-ER? You do realize that AARGM-ER, not only out ranges Meteor by several hundred kilometers, but is a high supersonic weapon as well. It also packs a much bigger punch. SPEAR3 or some variation would be a better option, than using your AAMs, as ARMs.
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madrat

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Unread post06 Oct 2020, 17:46

hornetfinn wrote:
sprstdlyscottsmn wrote:Interesting implication that the ASRAAM hits Mach4+


True. Maybe the cooling is so good that aerodynamic heating of dome material is not a problem even at those speeds?

Python 4 + Python V used manufactured emerald glass as seeker dome to attain much higher velocities than seeker on the Sidewinders. Maybe they did that for AIM-132.
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marauder2048

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Unread post06 Oct 2020, 23:41

madrat wrote:
hornetfinn wrote:
sprstdlyscottsmn wrote:Interesting implication that the ASRAAM hits Mach4+


True. Maybe the cooling is so good that aerodynamic heating of dome material is not a problem even at those speeds?

Python 4 + Python V used manufactured emerald glass as seeker dome to attain much higher velocities than seeker on the Sidewinders. Maybe they did that for AIM-132.


They're upgrading AIM-9X dome material from Sapphire to Nano Composite Optical Ceramic.
From memory, it's supposed to be Lot 20 (FY2020) and up.
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hornetfinn

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Unread post07 Oct 2020, 07:45

marauder2048 wrote:
madrat wrote:
hornetfinn wrote:True. Maybe the cooling is so good that aerodynamic heating of dome material is not a problem even at those speeds?

Python 4 + Python V used manufactured emerald glass as seeker dome to attain much higher velocities than seeker on the Sidewinders. Maybe they did that for AIM-132.


They're upgrading AIM-9X dome material from Sapphire to Nano Composite Optical Ceramic.
From memory, it's supposed to be Lot 20 (FY2020) and up.


Very interesting, thank you. Here is interesting presentation about Nano-Composite Optical Ceramics:
https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a527006.pdf

Looks like NCOC material combines the best qualities of previous materials used in IR domes but with better thermal shock resistance than any one of the other materials. Sapphire has been the best material previously, but this seems to significantly outperform it in all metrics.
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Unread post07 Oct 2020, 09:06

More detailed info about Nano-Composite Optical Ceramics properties:
https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... ocomposite

The strength of the nanocomposite at 21°C is twice as great as strengths achieved for its constituents


M:Y has ~80% infrared transmittance at 4–6 lm wavelengths, with five times less absorption than spinel and ten times less absorption than c-plane sapphire at 4.85 lm.


Sounds pretty good results to me.
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Unread post07 Oct 2020, 15:28

eloise wrote:Su-35 test launch R-37M a few days ago:

EjZ473YUYAAvGL-.jpg

EjZ48bzUcAITHld.jpg


This missile is far more interesting than the new K-77 IMO, if not anywhere near as practical. 400KM range, flies at mach 6, 60kg warhead..... are the brochure figures. Wonder what the real world stats are?

I used to think the R-33 was big, but this monster actually dwarfs it. Has to cost a pretty penny, I wonder how many platforms they'll end up equipping with it. Supposedly Mig-31, SU-35, SU-30SM's and the Mig-35.
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eloise

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Unread post07 Oct 2020, 18:57

wrightwing wrote:What basis are you using to suggest that Meteor is faster (or faster longer) than AARGM-ER? You do realize that AARGM-ER, not only out ranges Meteor by several hundred kilometers, but is a high supersonic weapon as well. It also packs a much bigger punch. SPEAR3 or some variation would be a better option, than using your AAMs, as ARMs.

I think AARGM_ER has higher top speed and probably better acceleration. But Meteor can sustain high supersonic for longer period of time thanks to its ability to throttle back in cruise condition. Spurt has done some simulation and clearly Meteor is quite unrivaled at long range.
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sprstdlyscottsmn

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Unread post07 Oct 2020, 19:17

All non-"Wiki" type info I found on the Meteor tells me that the ">100km" is vastly conservative. I don't see a purpose of an A-G Meteor vs the AARGM-ER for SEAD.
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Unread post07 Oct 2020, 19:43

eloise wrote:I think AARGM_ER has higher top speed and probably better acceleration. But Meteor can sustain high supersonic for longer period of time thanks to its ability to throttle back in cruise condition. Spurt has done some simulation and clearly Meteor is quite unrivaled at long range.


It really can't throttle-back since the gas generator is always burning and due to deposits from the gas generator
and the valve heating up it become less effective in regulating the burn rate.
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sprstdlyscottsmn

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Unread post07 Oct 2020, 20:15

marauder2048 wrote:It really can't throttle-back since the gas generator is always burning and due to deposits from the gas generator
and the valve heating up it become less effective in regulating the burn rate.

Can you provide a source? Everything I have seen about the throttling implies a 10:1 throttle ability and that the air-breathing gives it 3X the effective ISP of normal rocket motors.
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Unread post07 Oct 2020, 20:20

sprstdlyscottsmn wrote:
marauder2048 wrote:It really can't throttle-back since the gas generator is always burning and due to deposits from the gas generator
and the valve heating up it become less effective in regulating the burn rate.

Can you provide a source? Everything I have seen about the throttling implies a 10:1 throttle ability and that the air-breathing gives it 3X the effective ISP of normal rocket motors.


Pat Hewitt's dissertation (*drool*) on GQM-163:

https://vtechworks.lib.vt.edu/handle/10919/28928


You do see some wild maximum turn-down claims out there but I don't believe those to
be representative of steady-state capability.
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