Putin unveils new Russian nuclear arsenal

Unread postPosted: 02 Mar 2018, 05:28
by marsavian
Along with Sarmat and its potential South Pole trajectory a new miniaturized nuclear reactor cruise missile with no range limits. Two hypersonic weapons too, one deployed from space.

https://www.rt.com/news/420206-russia-s ... ons-putin/

Re: Putin unveils new Russian nuclear arsenal

Unread postPosted: 02 Mar 2018, 06:13
by popcorn
More R&D $$$$ for DEWS.

Re: Putin unveils new Russian nuclear arsenal

Unread postPosted: 02 Mar 2018, 16:54
by popcorn
No reaction from Trump so far to the video showing a MIRV swarm descending on Mar A Lago. :mrgreen: Putin basically giving him the finger in front of a worldwide audience. Will he respond?

Re: Putin unveils new Russian nuclear arsenal

Unread postPosted: 02 Mar 2018, 18:29
by jetblast16
Nuclear brinkmanship

Reminds me of Project Pluto:

https://jalopnik.com/the-flying-crowbar ... 1435286216

Re: Putin unveils new Russian nuclear arsenal

Unread postPosted: 02 Mar 2018, 21:31
by basher54321
Putin on new missile.jpg
Putin rides

Re: Putin unveils new Russian nuclear arsenal

Unread postPosted: 10 Mar 2018, 22:25
by marsavian
Video of MiG-31 releasing a hypersonic missile.

Image

https://www.rt.com/news/420947-russian- ... ile-tests/

The new weapon was unveiled on March 1 by Russia’s President Vladimir Putin, with a range of other new arms, which include a nuclear-powered drone submarine, a combat laser system and even a nuclear-powered cruise missile of “unlimited range.”

The ‘Kinzhal’ missile has an effective range of 2,000km and can travel 10 times faster than the speed of sound. The munition is highly maneuverable and can reliably penetrate all the existing and even prospected air-defense systems, according to Russia’s President. The Kinzhal can be fitted with nuclear or conventional warheads.

Re: Putin unveils new Russian nuclear arsenal

Unread postPosted: 10 Mar 2018, 23:15
by jetblast16
Makes a nice target for a high energy laser

Re: Putin unveils new Russian nuclear arsenal

Unread postPosted: 11 Mar 2018, 05:49
by madrat
If they retire about 100 more MiG-31's they could afford to buy ten hypersonic missiles. That would be one for each remaining MiG-31...

Re: Putin unveils new Russian nuclear arsenal

Unread postPosted: 11 Mar 2018, 08:56
by zero-one
Not sure what the recent re-obsession is with Nukes.

they're pretty much white elephants in today's world. You can't use them unless you're deliberately starting WW3.
I'm guessing these thing can also carry conventional warheads.

Re: Putin unveils new Russian nuclear arsenal

Unread postPosted: 11 Mar 2018, 11:24
by element1loop
zero-one wrote:Not sure what the recent re-obsession is with Nukes. They're pretty much white elephants in today's world. You can't use them unless you're deliberately starting WW3. I'm guessing these thing can also carry conventional warheads.


There's a backhanded upside though. Yes, they can not be used as war-fighting weapons, and can only deter/prevent others using them on you (useful), but do 'force' Russia, China and NORKs etc., to invest in expensive and economically draining investments in nukes and their support. And thus divert $ away from competitive conventional weapon development and aquisitions, which they could actually use in war. Possessing nukes can not deter a conventional war, or help to win one (many examples exist), so they're no better off in practice having nukes or spending scarce capital in modernising them.

Soviet nuke and related systems production collapsed in 1986, they went broke and had to start borrowing money from Western banks (capitalists) and when their credit dried-up and further loans were refused in 1989, they just collapsed. All the nukes you could want ... and no national security. lol

So as long as their expense impedes their economic progress and capital investments, in air and space power, they're worth it - for us.

It's maybe a good thing Putin feels nukes will help him be the ru dictator, as he seems to have bled his airpower development budget to rebuild the useless nuke force and its systems, having not digested Soviet economic errors, of building ~39,000 nukes, or realised that he can't actually fight a war with any of them, or deter conventional operations against his own relatively diminished conventional forces. Nor can the NORKs, China. So nothing much has changed, except that the more money they spend on nukes, the relatively weaker they become in useable conventional capabilities.

So the logical thing to do is spend the minimum necessary on credible US, UK, French modernisation of a small nuke force, and pour money into conventional developments and procurements, instead.

That will keep the West stronger in useable capabilities for many decades, while we watch Russia bleed out their capital and economic energy, maintaining their unuseables.

Good on them.

Re: Putin unveils new Russian nuclear arsenal

Unread postPosted: 11 Mar 2018, 12:40
by marsavian
Russian nukes are not for the West except as part of the general Russian bullying tactic but their conventional arms and gas supplies monopoly will suffice for that against Europe. Russian nukes are to deter its very populous Asian neighbors like China or Japan from ever resurrecting centuries old claims to Russian territory. There are no territorial disputes between Europe and Russia but they always want their influence to advance west like in the to them good old days of Soviet Union.

This hypersonic missile can be used conventionally so it will add to Russia's offensive long strike weaponry. We know nothing about its flight profile but if its terminal velocity is anywhere near Mach 10 it will take some stopping.

Re: Putin unveils new Russian nuclear arsenal

Unread postPosted: 11 Mar 2018, 14:21
by botsing
marsavian wrote:Russian nukes are not for the West except as part of the general Russian bullying tactic but their conventional arms and gas supplies monopoly will suffice for that against Europe. Russian nukes are to deter its very populous Asian neighbors like China or Japan from ever resurrecting centuries old claims to Russian territory. There are no territorial disputes between Europe and Russia but they always want their influence to advance west like in the to them good old days of Soviet Union.

This hypersonic missile can be used conventionally so it will add to Russia's offensive long strike weaponry. We know nothing about its flight profile but if its terminal velocity is anywhere near Mach 10 it will take some stopping.

Got any reliable sources for these political claims?

Re: Putin unveils new Russian nuclear arsenal

Unread postPosted: 11 Mar 2018, 14:43
by marsavian
There are actually existing territorial disputes one of which has prevented Japan and Russia officially ending WWII between them. Nationalists in both China and Japan can go back centuries in their revisionist thinking to claim more. Russia's No 1 fear historically are the territorial designs other countries have on their land and with the experience of Napoleon and Hitler do you blame them. China might fancy its chances in a conventional war but not a nuclear one. Which is why it is generally a well behaved neighbor of Russia.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1991_Si ... _Agreement
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-So ... r_conflict
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuril_Islands_dispute
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-11664434

Re: Putin unveils new Russian nuclear arsenal

Unread postPosted: 11 Mar 2018, 18:46
by tsl256
marsavian wrote:There are actually existing territorial disputes one of which has prevented Japan and Russia officially ending WWII between them. Nationalists in both China and Japan can go back centuries in their revisionist thinking to claim more. Russia's No 1 fear historically are the territorial designs other countries have on their land and with the experience of Napoleon and Hitler do you blame them. China might fancy its chances in a conventional war but not a nuclear one. Which is why it is generally a well behaved neighbor of Russia.

<span class="skimlinks-unlinked">https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1991_Sino-Soviet_Border_Agreement</span>
<span class="skimlinks-unlinked">https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Soviet_border_conflict</span>
<span class="skimlinks-unlinked">https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuril_Islands_dispute</span>
<span class="skimlinks-unlinked">http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-11664434</span>


If a war broke out between China and Russia, China would win the conventional war, but both sides would lose in a nuclear war. Overall China has a greater chance of victory in a war with Russia, Putin knows that if he were to use nukes against China, it would be the end of Russia as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBGsRmR ... e&index=16

Re: Putin unveils new Russian nuclear arsenal

Unread postPosted: 11 Mar 2018, 20:16
by marsavian
Binkov's videos are entertaining but I would not consider them the last word on prospective battles as often crude assumptions are made on quality and quantity differences as well as respective strategies involved. Russian technology tends to be more modern but of course China has the concentrated manpower. Over the long term probably a very bloody conventional draw is likely like the Iraq/Iran conflict but the J-20 is a recent wild card at least in the air superiority arena.

Nuclear wise Russia has order of magnitude more missiles and could erase the majority of Chinese civilization in a very brutal first strike. In return it would really only have to worry about which of China's five nuclear missile submarines was at sea and available for retaliation and Moscow has an ABM system. Russia would take big hits here and there but it would not be totally destroyed like China.

If you like Binkov he did two F-35 vs Su-35 videos too. I believe he makes exaggerated claims of the effectiveness of Su-35 radar/missiles against F-35 and underestimates the effectiveness of F-35 radar/missiles against Su-35.




Re: Putin unveils new Russian nuclear arsenal

Unread postPosted: 12 Mar 2018, 01:56
by vilters
If his rockets are as good as his PAK-FA-fantasie?
We have nothing to fear.

But, then again? ? ?
Who is still flying to the International Space Museum? :shock:

Re: Putin unveils new Russian nuclear arsenal

Unread postPosted: 12 Mar 2018, 02:11
by Corsair1963
We can expect to see more and more Russian Propaganda with time. As the country slips further and further behind China, India, and the US.

Re: Putin unveils new Russian nuclear arsenal

Unread postPosted: 12 Mar 2018, 10:18
by botsing
Corsair1963 wrote:We can expect to see more and more Russian Propaganda with time. As the country slips further and further behind China, India, and the US.

^This indeed^

This whole thread is a nice example of that:
* News of Russia with a new "superweapon" .
* Links posted to Russian state run sites like RT.
* Truth bending by assuming state policies and historical "facts".

Quite a waste of precious discussion time.

Re: Putin unveils new Russian nuclear arsenal

Unread postPosted: 12 Mar 2018, 11:54
by marsavian
Mattis Sees No Change in Russian Military Capability in Light of Putin’s Speech

https://www.defense.gov/News/Article/Ar ... ns-speech/

Russia disagrees

https://www.rt.com/usa/421009-mattis-po ... n-weapons/

Regardless of where the truth lies there is not much doubt that hypersonic aircraft and weapons is the next big step in military aviation, unless they can ever get directed energy weapons to be effective.

Re: Putin unveils new Russian nuclear arsenal

Unread postPosted: 20 Mar 2018, 21:35
by marsavian
http://thehill.com/homenews/administrat ... on-victory

President Trump on Tuesday congratulated Russian President Vladimir Putin on his reelection and said he wants to meet with the Russian leader to discuss the “arms race” between their two nations.

“I suspect we'll probably be meeting in the not too distant future to discuss the arms race, which is getting out of control,” Trump said.

The president spoke to reporters in the Oval Office after what he described as a “very good call” with Putin, two days after the Russian president won another six-year term, a widely expected result in an election marred by fraud accusations.

Re: Putin unveils new Russian nuclear arsenal

Unread postPosted: 20 Mar 2018, 22:40
by madrat
Hypersonic is fine for niche work, but it's never going to reach wide-scale use.

Re: Putin unveils new Russian nuclear arsenal

Unread postPosted: 21 Mar 2018, 00:04
by element1loop
madrat wrote:Hypersonic is fine for niche work, but it's never going to reach wide-scale use.


Bingo.

They'll make a terrific flashy scarey distraction while other systems take the OPFOR apart, while they're still preoccupied with the hypersonics show.

Not to mention ... what will they cost, per bang?

Re: Putin unveils new Russian nuclear arsenal

Unread postPosted: 21 Mar 2018, 01:03
by Corsair1963
At the rate Putin is running Russia into the ground. It will likely collapse in the near future. Just as the former Soviet Union did......


So, why would the US want to end an Arms Race with Russia??? :doh:

Re: Putin unveils new Russian nuclear arsenal

Unread postPosted: 21 Mar 2018, 04:31
by white_lightning35
Corsair1963 wrote:At the rate Putin is running Russia into the ground. It will likely collapse in the near future. Just as the former Soviet Union did......


So, why would the US want to end an Arms Race with Russia??? :doh:


Erm... Maybe because arms races aren't often desirable? This isn't the 60's, I don't think it is in anyone's best interest to see how many weapons they can stockpile.

I do agree that Russia is done. They are not going back to the glory days of old, whenever those were. Putin is basically the last gasp of a dying empire; Russia might seem scary with all their nukes and tanks, but they are not heading in a long term sustainable direction. The demographics aren't there for them, and the economy of the future can't just rely on oil and mineral exports.So the talk of them being a superpower again is ridiculous. They have been replaced by China as the world's anti-western regime, and that clearly make them unhappy and desperate to fix that.

Re: Putin unveils new Russian nuclear arsenal

Unread postPosted: 21 Mar 2018, 08:52
by marsavian
This is the type of rationale that the Russians have been using to justify all these new weapons to their public.

United Nations, 13 October. / TASS /. The US missile defense system already today provides not only detection of the launch, but also the possibility of intercepting Russian ballistic missiles. This was stated by the representative of the Ministry of Defense of Russia Alexander Yemelyanov during the Russian-Chinese missile defense briefing on the margins of the first committee of the UN General Assembly.

"The information and reconnaissance assets of the US missile defense system now provide not only the detection of the launch of Russian ballistic missiles, their escort on the flight trajectory, but also the delivery of target designations to the anti-missile defense complexes for intercepting combat blocks of ballistic missiles," Yemelyanov said.

The representative of the Ministry of Defense cited examples of hypothetical scenarios for intercepting Russian missiles by American missiles.

In particular, one of the scenarios assumes the interception of the Russian intercontinental ballistic missile (ICBM) by a missile defense complex located on the US warship in the Baltic Sea. Yemelyanov noted that during the simulation of this scenario, conducted by Russian specialists, "the interception was successful and was carried out even at the ascending stage of the intercontinental ballistic missile flight."

In another scenario, RF specialists simulated the interception of a ballistic missile launched from a Russian submarine in the Barents Sea. Hypothetical interception was carried out from a US ABM ship with the "Standard-3" anti-missiles in the Norwegian Sea.

"The presented results of the simulation show that taking into account the high speed of the interceptor, the interception of the target in both cases is possible even at the initial stage of the flight," Yemelyanov said.

In the third scenario, Russian experts simulated the interception of ICBMs launched from the central part of Russia by an anti-missile from the territory of the United States.

Emelyanov also added that the US can secretly arm the universal missile systems of its ABM system deployed in Europe with cruise missiles. Then under the sights of cruise missiles will be the entire European part of Russia.

He noted that the universal Mk-41 launchers, from which anti-ballistic missiles and cruise missiles are launched on ships, are used on US missile defense bases in Romania and Poland.

"The thesis that in the ground version the Mk-41 launchers allegedly lose the ability to launch cruise missiles is unconvincing.The replacement of anti-missile missiles on European missile defense bases with cruise missiles ... can be carried out secretly and in a short time.In this case, at the sight of cruise missiles will be the entire European part of Russia, "said Yemelyanov.

He drew attention to the fact that the possibility of using a ship launcher in a ground version for placing cruise missiles "is a direct violation of the obligations under the Treaty on the Elimination of Intermediate and Shorter-Range Missiles."

"Russian concerns about violations of international obligations on the part of the US we repeatedly brought to American partners, there is no reaction," the representative of the Russian Defense Ministry said.

Source: http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/4641843

Re: Putin unveils new Russian nuclear arsenal

Unread postPosted: 21 Mar 2018, 11:55
by milosh
Is there any info about nuclear jet engine for new cruise missile? I thought it was only concept but I saw Putin said they tested cruise missile in 2017. It would be interesting to see is it open cycle engine or closed but I doubt they will reveled it.

If it is closed cycle or can be modified to be close cycle then that is ideal engine for aew uav Russia need.

Re: Putin unveils new Russian nuclear arsenal

Unread postPosted: 21 Mar 2018, 12:35
by popcorn
milosh wrote:Is there any info about nuclear jet engine for new cruise missile? I thought it was only concept but I saw Putin said they tested cruise missile in 2017. It would be interesting to see is it open cycle engine or closed but I doubt they will reveled it.

If it is closed cycle or can be modified to be close cycle then that is ideal engine for aew uav Russia need.

Please elaborate. What is "closed cycle" and "open cycle" as it pertains to nuclear propulsion? Having a nuke-powered UAVs flying over Russia seems a good way to poison the countryside. :devil:

Re: Putin unveils new Russian nuclear arsenal

Unread postPosted: 21 Mar 2018, 17:43
by milosh
popcorn wrote:
milosh wrote:Is there any info about nuclear jet engine for new cruise missile? I thought it was only concept but I saw Putin said they tested cruise missile in 2017. It would be interesting to see is it open cycle engine or closed but I doubt they will reveled it.

If it is closed cycle or can be modified to be close cycle then that is ideal engine for aew uav Russia need.

Please elaborate. What is "closed cycle" and "open cycle" as it pertains to nuclear propulsion? Having a nuke-powered UAVs flying over Russia seems a good way to poison the countryside. :devil:


I meant indirect air cycle, direct air cycle would be ecological diaster and is only useful in nuclear war. So it would be interesting to see what air cycle they used on missile, very likely direct air cycle but size of reactor is very small if they use KH-101 sized missile so maybe it could evlove in indirect variant for uav.

Re: Putin unveils new Russian nuclear arsenal

Unread postPosted: 22 Mar 2018, 00:53
by element1loop
milosh wrote:
popcorn wrote:
milosh wrote:Is there any info about nuclear jet engine for new cruise missile? I thought it was only concept but I saw Putin said they tested cruise missile in 2017. It would be interesting to see is it open cycle engine or closed but I doubt they will reveled it.

If it is closed cycle or can be modified to be close cycle then that is ideal engine for aew uav Russia need.

Please elaborate. What is "closed cycle" and "open cycle" as it pertains to nuclear propulsion? Having a nuke-powered UAVs flying over Russia seems a good way to poison the countryside. :devil:


I meant indirect air cycle, direct air cycle would be ecological diaster and is only useful in nuclear war. So it would be interesting to see what air cycle they used on missile, very likely direct air cycle but size of reactor is very small if they use KH-101 sized missile so maybe it could evlove in indirect variant for uav.


Putin's not an even remotely credible source in my view, especially during a 'democratic' election, which is itself a total farce. (same applies to all of the other commies-in-drag now pretending to be luved leaders of dah peeples)

So what does 'tested mean?

Proof of concept prototype test?

Failed test?

Who knows?

But I take Russian chest-beating claims, during a fake and openly outright rigged-'election' with a grain of salt.

But there is this:

----
Scientists Have No Idea Why This Enriched Uranium Particle Was Floating Above Alaska

Ryan F. Mandelbaum

Feb 14, 2018, 4:00pm

On 3 August 2016, 7km above Alaska's Aleutian Islands, a research plane captured something mysterious: An atmospheric aerosol particle enriched with the kind of uranium used in nuclear fuel and bombs.

https://www.gizmodo.com.au/2018/02/scie ... ve-alaska/
----

Maybe it's a bit 'open-cycle' ... nice.

Re: Putin unveils new Russian nuclear arsenal

Unread postPosted: 22 Mar 2018, 02:12
by sferrin
element1loop wrote:Maybe it's a bit 'open-cycle' ... nice.


The US tested a nuclear ramjet back in the 60s. The ramjet ran at 35,000lbs thrust for 5 minutes. (It was on a test stand. Yes it was a ramjet.)


Re: Putin unveils new Russian nuclear arsenal

Unread postPosted: 22 Mar 2018, 03:46
by element1loop
I've worked with refractory materials in high temp presurised-air heat cycles, so I know what happens to them, so where that video said, "relatively brittle" ... give it a miss.

Re: Putin unveils new Russian nuclear arsenal

Unread postPosted: 27 Mar 2018, 02:27
by armedupdate
Can anything practically stop Hypersonic glide vehicles? Mach 20 impacting Carrier doesn't sound fun.

The problem I see is they go so fast and can turn as well, you need to launch multiple SM-6s or THAAD-ER to bring down just one and those ABMs are very short ranged so it can be overwhelmed. I hope they make the SM-3 Block IIB with atmospheric capabilities.

Re: Putin unveils new Russian nuclear arsenal

Unread postPosted: 27 Mar 2018, 05:03
by madrat
Lasers travel much faster and will make hypersonic missiles oscillate into smithereens at a safe range.

Re: Putin unveils new Russian nuclear arsenal

Unread postPosted: 27 Mar 2018, 14:29
by marsavian
Russia, China eclipse US in hypersonic missiles, prompting fears

http://thehill.com/policy/defense/38036 ... ting-fears

In congressional testimony last week Gen. John Hyten, commander of U.S. Strategic Command, conceded U.S. missile defense cannot stop hypersonics. He said that the U.S. is instead relying on nuclear deterrence, or the threat of a retaliatory U.S. strike, as its defense against such missiles. To bolster missile defenses against hypersonics, Hyten advocated space-based sensors.

“I believe we need to pursue improved sensor capabilities to be able to track, characterize and attribute the threats, wherever they come from,” he said. “And, right now, we have a challenge with that, with our current on-orbit space architecture and the limited number of radars that we have around the world. In order to see those threats, I believe we need a new space sensor architecture.”

Asked if the U.S. is really falling behind Russia and China on hypersonics, Thomas Karako, director of the Missile Defense Project at the Center for Strategic and International Studies, said flatly: “Yes.”

“And the reason is the U.S. hasn’t been doing anything near the same pace both in terms of developing our own capabilities but also failing to develop sensors and shooters necessary to shoot down theirs,” he continued.

Terrestrial sensors are limited in their ability because of the curvature of the earth, Karako said, but “you can’t hide from a robust constellation of space-based sensors.”

Yet while the last five administrations have identified space-based sensors as a critical need on paper, nothing has come to fruition, he said.

“One of the reasons that we haven’t prioritized the hypersonic threat is we were slow to kind of appreciate not merely the Russia and China problem, but the Russia and China missile problem,” Karako said.

Re: Putin unveils new Russian nuclear arsenal

Unread postPosted: 29 Mar 2018, 23:20
by marsavian
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald ... es-n861256

Behind the scenes, however, Trump has recently taken a sharper tone on Putin, administration officials said, but the shift seems more a reaction to the Russian leader challenging the president's strength than a new belief that he's an adversary. Putin's claim earlier this month that Russia has new nuclear-capable weapons that could hit the U.S., a threat he underscored with video simulating an attack, "really got under the president's skin," one official said.

Two officials said Trump told Putin during a phone call after Putin's re-election last week: "If you want to have an arms race we can do that, but I'll win."

An argument the president's national security advisers have found to be successful in trying to persuade Trump to adopt aggressive Russia policies is that Putin responds to strength and the way to achieve better relations is to be tougher on him, officials said.

One official described it as a way to "motivate" Trump on Russia.

"He digs in his heels," the official said. "He thinks a better relationship with Russia is good for the U.S., and he really believes he can deliver it."

Moreover, the official said, Trump wants a better U.S. relationship with Russia to prove he can accomplish it.

Re: Putin unveils new Russian nuclear arsenal

Unread postPosted: 07 May 2018, 15:19
by mixelflick
"If you want to have an arms race we can do that, but I'll win." LOL

Normally, I vote independent. But I will tell you this: I love the fact we have a President that tells it like it is. Straight talk, not this PC crap that has proliferated all these years. I feel a hell of a lot better with him in the White House vs. Clinton. She had/has a God awful relationship with Putin, and no doubt the 2 would remain at odds. At least Trump brings the possibility of working with Putin. And if not like he said, we'll compete with them (and win).

If the Dems were smart they wouldn't have rigged their own primary and let Sanders run. At least he believed in what he said, and was genuine vs. the robotic liar, Clinton. He would have won too, I'm convinced of it...