'Historical' Squadron

Discuss air warfare, doctrine, air forces, historic campaigns, etc.

Good idea for 'Historical' Squadron?

Yes, cool!
5
71%
Too expensive, not enough return.
2
29%
 
Total votes : 7

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f100pw229

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Unread post11 Mar 2004, 07:05

I have always wished for a Historical, if you will, squadron in the USAF. They could serve a similar purpose as the Thunderbirds.

The squadron I propose would maintain and fly several important historical planes of the AF, i.e. B-17, B-58, P-80, etc. What do you all think?
Happy landings -- Jeff - AIM <jeff16falcn>
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elp

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Unread post11 Mar 2004, 14:44

F-100, F-4 ( Robin Olds Vietnam jet ), F-104, A-1 Skyraider, F-106, F-86, F-51 ( in korean war garb ),Tall tail B-52, ( take the just retired NASA # 008 B model and make it look like a stainless steel SAC warrior F model (that crew starts the show driving up in vehicles and running out to the aircraft as if it was on alert , :D ), And a striped, maintenance friendly, F-111 ( LN or UH ). These jets make an awesome highspeed low pass if you have never seen one. AC-47, and a transport of some kind from the Berlin Airlift.
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habu2

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Unread post11 Mar 2004, 17:23

All of these 'historical' squadron are backed by either private or commercial funding - not USAF. The requlatory hoops they must jump through rival the financial hurdles as well.
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Phoenix

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Unread post11 Mar 2004, 21:48

I dunno, there's already sveral groups that do all sorts of demos and stuff like that, I don't see why the AF should spend money that could go into pilot training, or equiping their squadrons, when the job is already being done by others. If anything, some non-monetary grants could be given, or something similar, but otherwise, I dunno, the AF needs all the money it can get as it is, a 'Historical' squadron, despite making quite an impression on those who know anything about vintage jets, would be a burden the AF could do without. My 2 cts.
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habu2

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Unread post11 Mar 2004, 23:45

I vote for the Thunderbirds going back to F-4s, or maybe F-100s, or... :)
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TC

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Unread post12 Mar 2004, 02:43

The Commemorative (Artists Formerly Known as Confederate) Air Force will never be a real "Commemorative" AF til they get a Thud. Yes yes, I know, no more flying F-105s, but shoot, if they can restore some of these other planes, I'd love to see them restore a Thud, and maybe a Voodoo and a 106. Now, THAT would be a helluva show start, to have the Thud sitting at EOR, and light off that Water Injection Afterburner, take off, and then come back over show center, about 50 feet off the deck at Ludicrous Speed. It could then demonstrate how it would bomb an NVA target.

It's been 20 years since an F-105 flew. I miss the Thud. Great Jet. But yes, too much money to operate a squadron of this nature. This is the reason for CAF and YAF, and some of the other civilian groups. There is a group that does a mock Vietnam battle, with an A-1, C-7 Caribou, a Huey, and I think a Cobra. Pretty cool stuff.
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f100pw229

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Unread post12 Mar 2004, 18:10

^That's the stuff I'm talkin about. Yeah, there are some private groups, but an official AF squadron would have the ability to use any aircraft they pleased, like you will never see a private group fly a B-58!! :roll: That's why.

And not just jets, either Phoenix, ;)
Happy landings -- Jeff - AIM <jeff16falcn>
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Phoenix

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Unread post12 Mar 2004, 20:03

Hey, I never said it wouldn't be nice, but I think it would betoo much of a strain on USAF assets. Maybe if the USAF decided to let those groups have their pick from old planes no longer in service and provide any assistance might be needed, then it would amount to something. But given all the financial hoops that air forces today have to jump through, I think one demo team is enough for the USAF and a Historical squadron wouldn't be as much of a PR success as the Thunderbirds, as far as Joe Citizen is concerned.
Let's face it, despite the special feeling that those vintage planes have, the Viper puts on a better aerobatic airshow. And given that there are quite a few people out there who can't tell the difference between a Thud and Phantom... you get my drift.
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JR007

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Unread post13 Mar 2004, 06:27

Man did you guys hit on an interesting topic. My quote for many years has been, “its hell having your own Air Force”. Come out to an airshow with us and you can watch the consumables get tossed into the wind. You’ve got a/c that there may not be another part for it when it breaks, so you manufacture it. You get 16 landings out of your main tires, and they cost $500 a piece. Some of the seals don’t exist, so you have to manufacture them. The list goes on…

There is no way the USAF would operate aircraft under those circumstances.

Man would I love to see other stuff flying too. But a lot of times you get dumb asses with a lot of money telling you “No, I don’t want you to arrive on station with more than 600 lbs of fuel on board so we can save money”. And that was in an aircraft that would burn it all in 12 minutes in primary. Then you’ve got people that have a little money and are doing everything possible to safely operate their ex-military jets. And trust me, I’ve been in both groups, but you can guess where I am now… The only thing we have going for us is that we are EXPERIMENTAL.

But don’t fret dudes, there are currently T-33s, F-86s, F-100s, F-5s, T-38s, T-2, Gnats, Vampires, Provosts, Hunters, TS-11, S-211s, Casas, Saetas, L-29s, L-39s, L-59s, Fougas, Mig 15, 17, 21s, an F-4, and F-104s currently performing airshows in the US.
Burning debris never reversed on anyone…

JR
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f100pw229

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Unread post17 Mar 2004, 03:37

^two good posts. I don't expect the Historical Squadron to do many acrobatics, the Viper is of course best suited for that ... 8)
Happy landings -- Jeff - AIM <jeff16falcn>
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SwedgeII

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Unread post07 Apr 2004, 20:09

Cool Idea, but to do it right they should do one of each of the frontline types. I would love to see and hear a B-36 fly.

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