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Re: How effective are CIWS?

Unread postPosted: 26 May 2019, 03:05
by marauder2048
botsing wrote:Changes in adaptive dispersion rates and timed offset charges might negate your ideas.


And proximity fuzes for medium caliber rounds. And guided medium caliber rounds.

But getting body-to-body contact on small UAVs is hard even for MANPADS which
is why you are seeing a proximity fuze added to Stinger.

Re: How effective are CIWS?

Unread postPosted: 26 May 2019, 12:51
by sferrin
Put a small shaped charge on one of these, disperse a swarm of several hundred, and have them trained to look for things like gun barrels, airplanes, people. . . You'd never get body-to-body contact, and proximity fusing probably wouldn't even help you. DEW, be they laser or microwave, would be the only way to deal with them.




Re: How effective are CIWS?

Unread postPosted: 26 May 2019, 13:15
by popcorn
The power of the swarm will overwhelm any CIWS.

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-32334186

Re: How effective are CIWS?

Unread postPosted: 26 May 2019, 13:56
by sferrin
popcorn wrote:The power of the swarm will overwhelm any CIWS.

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-32334186


There's this one as well:


Re: How effective are CIWS?

Unread postPosted: 26 May 2019, 16:19
by count_to_10
sferrin wrote:Put a small shaped charge on one of these, disperse a swarm of several hundred, and have them trained to look for things like gun barrels, airplanes, people. . . You'd never get body-to-body contact, and proximity fusing probably wouldn't even help you. DEW, be they laser or microwave, would be the only way to deal with them.




Well, one other possible counter is bird netting. Also consider how slow those drones fly — they might need a delivery device to make their time to target reasonable.

Re: How effective are CIWS?

Unread postPosted: 26 May 2019, 20:37
by sferrin
count_to_10 wrote:Well, one other possible counter is bird netting. Also consider how slow those drones fly — they might need a delivery device to make their time to target reasonable.


They're a lot faster than your standard DJI. Not sure how effective bird netting would be. I don't imagine it would go over too well with soldiers. "Here, we want you to walk around in this portable bird cage."


Re: How effective are CIWS?

Unread postPosted: 27 May 2019, 04:32
by SpudmanWP
popcorn wrote:The power of the swarm will overwhelm any CIWS.

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-32334186


That's what EM and DEWs are for.

Re: How effective are CIWS?

Unread postPosted: 27 May 2019, 13:41
by madrat
The early antiship weapons were gigantic and required large missiles to stop them. Then they got smaller and flew just above the waves. Defensive missiles then had to pick targets out of clutter, which required sensors that operated at much shorter ranges and we're faster reacting. And then the threat became massed attacks so they designed multiple layers of ripple fired defensive systems. And now the threat is literally a cloud of drones. There is absolutely no single weapon to counter this. They will be forced to use multiple layers with more finesse.

Rapid fire buckshot in a 360° coverage with rapid generation of shrapnel splinter clouds is pretty low tech. I'm not so sure you couldn't repurpose the larger guns with some kind of smart fusing to thin out the cloud at a distance.

Re: How effective are CIWS?

Unread postPosted: 28 May 2019, 22:24
by sferrin
madrat wrote:Rapid fire buckshot in a 360° coverage with rapid generation of shrapnel splinter clouds is pretty low tech. I'm not so sure you couldn't repurpose the larger guns with some kind of smart fusing to thin out the cloud at a distance.


Attempting skin-to-skin contact with a projectile I'd think would be a losing proposition. A trainable weapon can only cover so much at a time. (A laser, while in a turret, should be able to scan much faster than the entire turret moves. Think of laser printing.)







(That last one is pretty frickin' amazing. The first pass is relatively boring. Not so after that.)

Re: How effective are CIWS?

Unread postPosted: 29 May 2019, 00:01
by popcorn
Would a microwave weapon be worth the effort? Or would drones simply be shielded for protection.

Re: How effective are CIWS?

Unread postPosted: 29 May 2019, 00:55
by madrat
So the drones thwart your laser defense by being utilized when lasers are a horrible expenditure of energy. Best to have low tech backup solutions.

Re: How effective are CIWS?

Unread postPosted: 29 May 2019, 03:07
by SpudmanWP
So the drones thwart your laser defense by being utilized when lasers are a horrible expenditure of energy.
That needs a better explanation.

Re: How effective are CIWS?

Unread postPosted: 29 May 2019, 12:51
by madrat
Laser technology isn't exactly a 24/7/365 solution.

Re: How effective are CIWS?

Unread postPosted: 29 May 2019, 13:00
by sferrin
madrat wrote:Laser technology isn't exactly a 24/7/365 solution.


Those tiny drones won't likely fair well in poor weather either.

Re: How effective are CIWS?

Unread postPosted: 30 May 2019, 04:50
by marauder2048
popcorn wrote:Would a microwave weapon be worth the effort? Or would drones simply be shielded for protection.


There are some extremely lightweight and cheap wraps that can be used for structure.

But ultimately, those wraps will be overcome at short range so you'll need
to come up with circuit designs/architectures that are protected as well.

It's unclear to me that the latter is that affordable for swarms of cheap UAVs.