Indian Mirage 2000 hits targets in Pakistan

[hythelday]

http://tass.com/world/1046940

NEW DELHI, February 28. /TASS/. Eight fighter jets of the Indian Air Force took on 24 Pakistani jets in an unprecedented air combat over the India-controlled disputed Kashmir region, India’s NDTV television reported on Thursday.

According to the TVChannel, the Pakistani Air Force strike group included eight F-16s, four Mirage-3 aircraft and four Chinese-made JF-17 "Thunder" fighters. The other aircraft were escort fighters to protect the Pakistan strike formation from any retaliation.

"The large Pakistani attack formation was detected at 9.45 am, when they came within 10 km of the Line of Control," the TVChannel reported.

The Pakistani aircraft were intercepted by eight jets of the Indian Air Force, which included four Sukhoi Su-30MKIs, two upgraded Mirage 2000s and two MiG 21 planes, the TVChannel reported.

[more bullshit from TASS]

Higher res but edited - Sputnik are running this as F-16 debris
https://twitter.com/i/status/1101142416399192066

WOW, two Russian propaganda mouthpieces running a story it's F-16 must be legit... NOT

They want to use f-16.net as a source? sure why not?


INDIA STRONK user wants to prove numbers on a random box a proof? Be my guest:



So according to INDIA STRONK users it's a former Jordanian F-16B, and they use f-16.net as a proof. Well, too bad for them, because according to them it's an "80269" airframe, a former Dutch F-16BM that was brought down and the same f-16.net says that it wasn't the airframe that Pakistan acquired from Jordan:

The one two-seater F-16 Pakistan acquired from Jordan in 2014 is number 14627:


and not the 80269 as INDIA STRONK poster says.

Moreover, let's examine the wreckage:



Sorry, INDIA STRONK but no matter what you and your loyal Russsia truth websites say, this ain't an F-16, this is a MiG-21 wreck.

[fbw]

Disappointed in the IAF, there are so many holes in this. The serial number claim is junk. Marker on parts with an incorrect serial? Second, the claimed Jordanian transfer was block 30 aircraft. The serial was a block 10 aircraft of the RNLAF retrofitted to block 20 MLU. The wreckage is not an F-16. So far, all we can say is that Pakistan lied about F-16 involvement, which isn’t a surprise. That would be a diplomatic black eye. L-M would have a hard time selling the F-21 under the pretense “we kill your legacy fleet so buy ours” JK

[eloise]

The wreckage where they found the series number belongs to Indian aircraft

[armedupdate]

Is it fair to say Pakistan has "won" this engagement?

i am not sure if the bombs dropped was enough to kill 300 terrorists in a couple sorties. Meanwhile India just lost millions of dollars of planes.

[fbw]

Is it fair to say Pakistan has "won" this engagement?

i am not sure if the bombs dropped was enough to kill 300 terrorists in a couple sorties. Meanwhile India just lost millions of dollars of planes.

India “lost” the twitter idiot public OSINT battle. But Pakistan is also the country who claims no terrorists live in its territory, and that its fighting Islamic fundamentalist terror groups. Osama could have been featured in “I heart Pakistan commercials” and they’d still be saying no terrorist groups were based there. We will see who the winner is if India is spared more terror attacks. That would be worth one MiG-21.

[marsavian]

So is this faux-F-16 aka Mig-21 wreckage the Indians are showing the same aircraft the Pakistanis showed of the actual one shot down or does it show another Mig-21 has been shot down ?

Original NDTV report of the encounter including video report.

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/24-paki ... rs-2000703

The Air Force fighters gave chase to the Pakistani jets on their return leg after they had dropped a handful of laser-guided bombs that narrowly missed their military targets along the Line of Control.

Wing Commander Abhinandan Varthaman was in hot pursuit of a Pakistani F-16, which his radar had locked onto.

Despite being warned by other aircraft in the formation about the presence of Pakistani fighters, he pushed home his attack and fired an R-73 air-to-air missile.

At this stage of the air-to-air encounter, the pilot's wingman was also exposed and vulnerable.

Two missiles were fired by Pakistani F-16s. One of them, an AMRAAM (Advanced Medium-Range Air-to-Air Missile) struck his aircraft, while another missed his wingman.

The Wing Commander was forced to eject and landed into the Pakistani side of Line of Control, where he was captured. Pakistan has announced that he will be released tomorrow.

[rockstar139]

I got a question here guys, according to the video I received

1. Abhinandan was not alone when ejected, after his capture local people were shouting "Go!! find the second one" and there is video showing two parachutes coming out of the plane!

2. Abhinandan was found in samani sector of Pakistan side of Kashmir (on LOC), and Indian's finds the wreckage of AMRAAM in Rajori sector, which is on Indian side of Kashmir(on LOC), you can say both sectors are neighbors across LOC.

Can we say that Abhinandan was in two seater? And his plane was hit by AMRAAM?

Share your thoughts. . .

Higher res but edited - Sputnik are running this as F-16 debris
https://twitter.com/i/status/1101142416399192066

Something's fishy here..
Oh Wait. It's FISHBED a.k.a. MiG-21 puzzle

[vm]

In his official press conference after the shooting down of the mig21, the Pakistani maj General, the official spokesperson clearly said that 2 pilots were detained. With one in custody while other was in admitted in hospital.
After the Indians accepted one mig21 with a pilot was missing he changed his official statement to one pilot detained.
With Pakistani eyewitnesses also claiming 2 parachutes being seen, their seems a real possibility that the Pakistanis actually lost a plane and realized late that it was their own plane.
https://youtu.be/EkGeXOiGhBU
At 4.45 he clearly claims that 2 were captured.

[weasel1962]

The difference being that Pakistan also claimed the 2nd plane landed in IOK which means the Indians actually have the wreckage. If it was truly an f-16, you can be sure it would have been all over TV by now.

Its interesting how India actually got the Amraam. It couldn't have been from the 1st kill right since that was in Pakistan? So if its likely from the 2nd plane in IOK...

Right now, its still 1 confirmed kill by PAF and 1 helo lost. The helo lost probably costs the Indians far more.

[eloise]

So is this faux-F-16 aka Mig-21 wreckage the Indians are showing the same aircraft the Pakistanis showed of the actual one shot down or does it show another Mig-21 has been shot down ?

Original NDTV report of the encounter including video report

It is the same one

[madrat]

The pictures above are unrelated. The numerous objects around the two wreckage in each case suggest no relation.

[wil59]

Would it be crazy for me to say that IAF is far more powerful than the PAF. Forget the fact that India has far more money than Pakistan.

But in air superiority fighters the F-16 is really only superior in a high speed dogfight. In BVR the AMRAAMs should also give the Viper advantages but the Su-30s of the IAF has a bigger more advanced radar than Pakistani Vipers, more support assets like AEWACS and I think there are more of them available too...

So India could really enforce a no fly zone on their border with Pakistan and they would have the upper hand. Am I missing things here?

On paper the Indian air force is quite superior. They also hold several real advantages, like numbers.

The SU-30 does have the bigger radar. But it's an open question if it's better than the block 50 Vipers Pakistan is flying. BVR missiles I'd have to give it to Pakistani AMRAAM C-5's (don't think we sold them C-7's). The F-16 will present a much smaller RCS vs the Flanker, and WVR it will be harder to see.

If it comes to a knife fight, the F-16/Flanker matchup will be quite interesting. The F-16 is the ultimate rate machine, the Flanker's low speed nose pointing authority is legendary. In that event, I bet it'll come down to missiles. I don't think Pakistan has the 9x. So if the Flanker has the R-73/AA-11, I'd have to give it to the Flanker.

One thing's for sure: Anyone with even a passing interest in military aviation will be watching..

It's si not obvious ! Mirage 2000 ? VS su-30 VS F16 block50/52 Apg 69 ? RCS: F16 /Mirage 2000 < SU-30.
RDY-2 (mirage 2000-5 / -9) Inde M2000 = 2000-5
can follow - 24 targets
can simultaneously engage - 4 targets
maximum for 5 m² RCS - 80 km

APG-68 (V) 9 (on Block F-16 52) APG-68
Max Track for 5 m² RCS - 80 km Max Track amraam/c5 range 100 km ( pk 60.) Mica EM range 80 km (pk 93) Mica IR range 50 km ECM: F16 vs Mirage 2000 vs SU-30 ?

[hythelday]

In his official press conference after the shooting down of the mig21, the Pakistani maj General, the official spokesperson clearly said that 2 pilots were detained. With one in custody while other was in admitted in hospital.
After the Indians accepted one mig21 with a pilot was missing he changed his official statement to one pilot detained.
With Pakistani eyewitnesses also claiming 2 parachutes being seen, their seems a real possibility that the Pakistanis actually lost a plane and realized late that it was their own plane.
https://youtu.be/EkGeXOiGhBU
At 4.45 he clearly claims that 2 were captured.

If you joined the forum just to push one side's agenda - just quit.

Instead if describing what "eyewitnesses said", maybe post some sources?

Initial oral statements by both sides are WRONG. Either by honest mistake or deliberate lie. India said that all planes returned safely - and had to eat their words. Pakistan said no F-16, but IF that AMRAAM piece is legit they also lied. Can't trust either side.

So far evidence suggests only one MiG-21 downed; not two planes as Pakistan said, not 2+1 as India soon tried to amend; the downed plane is neither a F-16 nor Su-30MKI.

Got some proof overwise? Share, I will gladly change my mind in the face if beliveble evidence.

The pictures above are unrelated. The numerous objects around the two wreckage in each case suggest no relation.

If there are numerous objects I fail ti spot them. Are you saying that nose section of Bison from AFP photo and two pictures of tail section are unrelated, or that the two pictures of tail section are not related between each other?

[vm]

In his official press conference after the shooting down of the mig21, the Pakistani maj General, the official spokesperson clearly said that 2 pilots were detained. With one in custody while other was in admitted in hospital.
After the Indians accepted one mig21 with a pilot was missing he changed his official statement to one pilot detained.
With Pakistani eyewitnesses also claiming 2 parachutes being seen, their seems a real possibility that the Pakistanis actually lost a plane and realized late that it was their own plane.
https://youtu.be/EkGeXOiGhBU
At 4.45 he clearly claims that 2 were captured.

If you joined the forum just to push one side's agenda - just quit.

Instead if describing what "eyewitnesses said", maybe post some sources?

Initial oral statements by both sides are WRONG. Either by honest mistake or deliberate lie. India said that all planes returned safely - and had to eat their words. Pakistan said no F-16, but IF that AMRAAM piece is legit they also lied. Can't trust either side.

So far evidence suggests only one MiG-21 downed; not two planes as Pakistan said, not 2+1 as India soon tried to amend; the downed plane is neither a F-16 nor Su-30MKI.

Got some proof overwise? Share, I will gladly change my mind in the face if beliveble evidence.

Can you give me any proof of a official Indian statement that all planes returned safely.? Don't give me media references . The mig 21 was downed at 10 am and the official Indian statement came at 3.30 pm accepting loss of a mig21.

[hythelday]

In his official press conference after the shooting down of the mig21, the Pakistani maj General, the official spokesperson clearly said that 2 pilots were detained. With one in custody while other was in admitted in hospital.
After the Indians accepted one mig21 with a pilot was missing he changed his official statement to one pilot detained.
With Pakistani eyewitnesses also claiming 2 parachutes being seen, their seems a real possibility that the Pakistanis actually lost a plane and realized late that it was their own plane.
https://youtu.be/EkGeXOiGhBU
At 4.45 he clearly claims that 2 were captured.

If you joined the forum just to push one side's agenda - just quit.

Instead if describing what "eyewitnesses said", maybe post some sources?

Initial oral statements by both sides are WRONG. Either by honest mistake or deliberate lie. India said that all planes returned safely - and had to eat their words. Pakistan said no F-16, but IF that AMRAAM piece is legit they also lied. Can't trust either side.

So far evidence suggests only one MiG-21 downed; not two planes as Pakistan said, not 2+1 as India soon tried to amend; the downed plane is neither a F-16 nor Su-30MKI.

Got some proof overwise? Share, I will gladly change my mind in the face if beliveble evidence.

Can you give me any proof of a official Indian statement that all planes returned safely.? Don't give me media references . The mig 21 was downed at 10 am and the official Indian statement came at 3.30 pm accepting loss of a mig21.

How about you give me sources to what you said, first?

"Don't give me media references" - well I be damned, but that how info is communicated. Maybe ask me to provide official IAF statement that they lied too? At least you agree with me that Indian media is rubbish.