Indian Mirage 2000 hits targets in Pakistan

hythelday · by **hythelday** » 28 Feb 2019, 17:09

Patriot wrote:But... if that piece comes from an AMRAAM indeed I bet they pulled it out of the smoking wreckage of Su-30MKI that hit the dirt on Indian side of the border.

It may only serve as the proof of the F-16 involvment but there is 0 evidence provided that any F-16 was shot down.

Where did Su-30 suddenly come from? Please don't spread misinformation.

Patriot · by **Patriot** » 28 Feb 2019, 17:56

On Day One of that mini war Paks made a claim they shoot down 2 aircrafts: one being MiG-21 (confirmed) and the other which was meant to be the Su-30MKI. Also Indians confirmed the Su-30 involvment in the operation but denied the loss of any Su-30. Also Paks denied F-16s involvement as well as denied a loss of any. Judging only by the Aim-120 piece we can assume Pak F-16s was likely there in contrary of what Paks says.
Could it be that MiG-21 shoot the F-16 down as Indians say? Or did Paks downed both MiG21 and Su-30 but for some good reason dont want to admit their F-16s were there?

mixelflick · by **mixelflick** » 28 Feb 2019, 18:16

Patriot wrote:On Day One of that mini war Paks made a claim they shoot down 2 aircrafts: one being MiG-21 (confirmed) and the other which was meant to be the Su-30MKI. Also Indians confirmed the Su-30 involvment in the operation but denied the loss of any Su-30. Also Paks denied F-16s involvement as well as denied a loss of any. Judging only by the Aim-120 piece we can assume Pak F-16s was likely there in contrary of what Paks says.
Could it be that MiG-21 shoot the F-16 down as Indians say? Or did Paks downed both MiG21 and Su-30 but for some good reason dont want to admit their F-16s were there?

Any of those and more are possibilities. The F-16 and SU-30 being the premiere air to air platforms used by either side, each has a vested interest insofar as covering up a loss.

Personally, I don't see where admitting to either is losing face. The ROE's and particulars of an engagement between the two would be far more telling. If an F-16 was shot down by a Flanker 1 vs. 1, that's one thing. If the F-16 was outnumbered 5 to 1 and shot down 4 Flankers before being downed by the 5th, that's quite another.

Regardless, the following maxim usually applies: "The first casualty of war is the truth...".

icemaverick · by **icemaverick** » 28 Feb 2019, 18:22

Patriot wrote:But... if that piece comes from an AMRAAM indeed I bet they pulled it out of the smoking wreckage of Su-30MKI that hit the dirt on Indian side of the border.

I didn’t read anywhere that the AMRAAM was qualified on the Su-30MKI? It carries the R-77 and the Indian-made Astra. Does India even have any AMRAAMs? I know they have R-77 and MICAs. They also will be buying the Meteor for their Rafales I believe. I think they may have some Israeli A2A missiles in their inventory.

Pakistan might want to lie about the use of F-16s for two major reasons. First, they don’t want to piss off Uncle Sam. Given that US-Pakistan relations have been rocky as of late, it’s possible the US could cut off supplies for the F-16 as they have done it the past. That’s some powerful leverage the US government has over Pakistan. Second, they want to advertise the capability of the JF-17....they didn’t need the F-16, the JF-17 was up to the task.

Patriot · by **Patriot** » 28 Feb 2019, 18:26

mixel

agreed.
Agreed.
Totally AGREED.

Patriot · by **Patriot** » 28 Feb 2019, 19:09

icemaverick

The integration of an Aim-120 within the russian made fighters is quite an expedited nad simplified process. It occure when the two are coliding at high rate of speed.
Here's an example of successful integration of Aim-120 on MiG-29

basher54321 · by **basher54321** » 28 Feb 2019, 19:37

Yes the Pakistanis were claiming 2 aircraft with one going down the Indian side and they stated no F-16s took part - but I have not seen anything direct denying they had lost no jets at all just F-16s.

India admits to losing one MiG-21 Bison and claims to have shot down a PAF fighter jet that landed Pakistan side. They claim the AMRAAM wreckage and signals detected via SiGInt seem to prove F-16s were about however they are still none the wiser to know what they shot down (if anything).

Feb 19th 2019 3 of the India Surya Kiran Aerobatic Team (SKAT) collided killing Wing Commander Sahil Gandhi

https://www.thenewsminute.com/article/t ... 2019-97084

Sahil is on the left apparently:

: WC SahillGandi.jpg (45.43 KiB) Viewed 32128 times

https://www.rediff.com/news/special/don ... 190221.htm

Notice the patch he is wearing looks identical to the one on this guy - so this chap is probably one of the 2 display pilots that got out OK.

: DisplayPilot.JPG (61.5 KiB) Viewed 32128 times

sprstdlyscottsmn · by **sprstdlyscottsmn** » 28 Feb 2019, 19:37

That's an R-73 in the foreground

basher54321 · by **basher54321** » 28 Feb 2019, 19:42

Looks like Polish humour at work - I hope I don't have to explain the Polish method of AMRAAM integration.

basher54321 · by **basher54321** » 28 Feb 2019, 20:02

More shots of the MiG-21 wreckage that the Indian media is still claiming is an F-16 :doh:

Patriot · by **Patriot** » 28 Feb 2019, 20:05

Basher go ahead and explain. Im curious...

sprstdlyscottsmn · by **sprstdlyscottsmn** » 28 Feb 2019, 20:13

basher54321 wrote:Looks like Polish humour at work - I hope I don't have to explain the Polish method of AMRAAM integration.

I get it now.

I think I failed to read the entire middle part of the post. That's on me.

noth · by **noth** » 28 Feb 2019, 20:31

Still no video footage of the bomb strikes by the Mirage 2000Hs. You'd think the IAF would have a sleak presentation all setup and ready by now.

Certainly the information war is raging, throwing every crashed plane's footage out that they can find but both airforces seem to be keeping mum about any planes that may have crashed within their own territory. Would be bad for moral and all that. Indian gov is pushing on social media companies not to publish anything that could demoralize the population, so you can see where that's going.

basher54321 · by **basher54321** » 28 Feb 2019, 20:57

More typos - who knows.

No: 1168-06
November 17, 2006

Raytheon Co., Tucson, Ariz., is being awarded a $269,646,834 firm-fixed-price contract modification. This action is exercising an option to purchase 500 Advanced Medium Range Air-to-Air Missiles (AMRAAM) Air Vehicles (AAVs) Air Intercept Missile (AIM) – 120C-5 missiles and rehost. This effort supports foreign military sales to Pakistan 100%. At this time, total funds have been obligated. This work will be complete April 2011. Headquarters Medium Range Missile Systems Group, Eglin Air Force Base, Fla., is the contracting activity (FA8675-05-C-0070/P00028).

http://archive.defense.gov/Contracts/Co ... actID=3384

Patriot · by **Patriot** » 28 Feb 2019, 21:59

Such a shame the Monty Python's Flying Circus are out of business. I see a whole another season based on that quasi war. A month from now each coutry's public tv and media outlets will still be desperately trying to convince each other on who shoot down whom more by tossing a photoshoped crash sites back n forth to prove their point.

I hope the search for an F-16/Su-30 crash site will be advancing soon!