Indian Mirage 2000 hits targets in Pakistan

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hythelday

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Unread post27 Feb 2019, 13:10

Here's a MiG-21 wreck:

https://www.afp.com/en/news/3954/pakist ... oc-1dy4mo4
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Liveleak video with the wreckage is NSFW; but that wreck does not match this one. The Indian pilot fellow who is lying on the ground has Indian flag patch and is wearing parachute rig and does not have the impressive facial hair of the pilot from the other video. So there's definitely two wreckages and unless that Fishbed was a two-seater Pakistanis brought down a second fighter also.

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Last edited by hythelday on 27 Feb 2019, 15:58, edited 2 times in total.
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zero-one

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Unread post27 Feb 2019, 13:13

Saw a Facebook post from a page called
"Pakistani Air Force" (not sure it its the official page) saying the shooter was a JF-17.

So far its still a toss up between the F-16 or JF-17.
https://theaviationist.com/2019/02/27/i ... force-jet/


IAF pilot was named as IndianAirForce's Wing Commander Abhinandan Varthaman

Service No: 27981
Branch F(P)
Date Commissioned 19 Jun 2004


There is also a video of Varthaman 8 years ago in the IAF
So it looks like the Pakistanis won this time
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Unread post27 Feb 2019, 14:00

Quite telling the Indians chose a western jet, sensors and weapons to perform the strike. Plus 2 Russian built birds (Mig-21 and helo) brought down.

The SU-30MKI/F-16 matchup sounds interesting. I have to believe it's coming...
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hythelday

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Unread post27 Feb 2019, 16:06

icemaverick wrote:It’s interesting that they chose the Mirage-2000 for the mission. Is it the best strike plane in their arsenal? I thought the Su-30MKI had some pretty potent strike capabilities. My theory is that the Russian strike munitions aren’t as good as the Israeli ones. I’m guessing the avionics/targeting pods etc. aren’t as advanced in the Su-30MKIs.

That being said, the MKIs are probably the superior air to air platform and I wouldn’t be surprised if they were flying top cover on the mission.


Su-30MKI have Thales' Damocles TGP, and supposedly Paveways intergated (India bought Paveways in 1994, not sure how many are left, can't find pics of Flankers with Paveways) plus KAB-### LGBs. I think it has more to do with the fact Flanker is considered better DCA/sweep platform. Don't know why Fishbeds were used though, Indians thought they were up to the job and it looks like some of their aircrew had to pay with their life for that. :shock:
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mixelflick

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Unread post27 Feb 2019, 16:45

Reports now indicate Pakistani F-16 downed. No confirmation yet how. Speculation is an Indian Mig-21 or SU-30MKI. I'd think it was the latter, but the fog of war is strong...

EDIT: Now Pakistan says no F-16 was brought down..

https://www.samaa.tv/news/2019/02/no-a- ... -by-india/
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Unread post27 Feb 2019, 18:08

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Unread post27 Feb 2019, 18:24

Watching the BBC now, they played a video of a statement from a spokesman for the Indian Foreign Ministry who states it was a MiG-21 that shot down the PAF Jet. He doesn’t identify what type was shot down, only calling it a “Pakistan Air Force Fighter Aircraft”.
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hythelday

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Unread post27 Feb 2019, 18:32

tjh8402 wrote:Watching the BBC now, they played a video of a statement from a spokesman for the Indian Foreign Ministry who states it was a MiG-21 that shot down the PAF Jet. He doesn’t identify what type was shot down, only calling it a “Pakistan Air Force Fighter Aircraft”.


India denied missing a fighter at first too. They now admit one MiG-21, even though liveleak vids and AFP picture show difderent wrecks. Pakistan likely won't admit it unless some evidence surfaces. IF it crashed in Pakistan Indians likely don't have any evidence, so we'd have to rely on general public and abundance of phone cameras and internet access.

Both sides are probably on full alert now, so unless they decide to duke it out, I don't think we'll get accidental skirmish/ambush type of engagement.
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zero-one

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Unread post27 Feb 2019, 19:36

Would it be crazy for me to say that IAF is far more powerful than the PAF. Forget the fact that India has far more money than Pakistan.

But in air superiority fighters the F-16 is really only superior in a high speed dogfight. In BVR the AMRAAMs should also give the Viper advantages but the Su-30s of the IAF has a bigger more advanced radar than Pakistani Vipers, more support assets like AEWACS and I think there are more of them available too...

So India could really enforce a no fly zone on their border with Pakistan and they would have the upper hand. Am I missing things here?
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Unread post27 Feb 2019, 20:10

Bigger radar dish - yes.
More advanced radar in general - likely no.

Id say the AMRAAM is a single most important and key factor in favor of Paks to hold an air superiority over Indians. Whenever an AMRAAM comes off the rail it's asured someome wont go back home that day
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Unread post27 Feb 2019, 20:23

zero-one wrote:Would it be crazy for me to say that IAF is far more powerful than the PAF. Forget the fact that India has far more money than Pakistan.

But in air superiority fighters the F-16 is really only superior in a high speed dogfight. In BVR the AMRAAMs should also give the Viper advantages but the Su-30s of the IAF has a bigger more advanced radar than Pakistani Vipers, more support assets like AEWACS and I think there are more of them available too...

So India could really enforce a no fly zone on their border with Pakistan and they would have the upper hand. Am I missing things here?


On paper the Indian air force is quite superior. They also hold several real advantages, like numbers.

The SU-30 does have the bigger radar. But it's an open question if it's better than the block 50 Vipers Pakistan is flying. BVR missiles I'd have to give it to Pakistani AMRAAM C-5's (don't think we sold them C-7's). The F-16 will present a much smaller RCS vs the Flanker, and WVR it will be harder to see.

If it comes to a knife fight, the F-16/Flanker matchup will be quite interesting. The F-16 is the ultimate rate machine, the Flanker's low speed nose pointing authority is legendary. In that event, I bet it'll come down to missiles. I don't think Pakistan has the 9x. So if the Flanker has the R-73/AA-11, I'd have to give it to the Flanker.

One thing's for sure: Anyone with even a passing interest in military aviation will be watching..
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Patriot

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Unread post27 Feb 2019, 20:38

mixelflick wrote:But it's an open question if it's better than the block 50 Vipers Pakistan is flying

They have a few squadrons of standard Block 15s with no MLU upgrades and 18 Block 52+
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wil59

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Unread post27 Feb 2019, 20:49

mixelflick wrote:
zero-one wrote:Would it be crazy for me to say that IAF is far more powerful than the PAF. Forget the fact that India has far more money than Pakistan.

But in air superiority fighters the F-16 is really only superior in a high speed dogfight. In BVR the AMRAAMs should also give the Viper advantages but the Su-30s of the IAF has a bigger more advanced radar than Pakistani Vipers, more support assets like AEWACS and I think there are more of them available too...

So India could really enforce a no fly zone on their border with Pakistan and they would have the upper hand. Am I missing things here?


On paper the Indian air force is quite superior. They also hold several real advantages, like numbers.

The SU-30 does have the bigger radar. But it's an open question if it's better than the block 50 Vipers Pakistan is flying. BVR missiles I'd have to give it to Pakistani AMRAAM C-5's (don't think we sold them C-7's). The F-16 will present a much smaller RCS vs the Flanker, and WVR it will be harder to see.

If it comes to a knife fight, the F-16/Flanker matchup will be quite interesting. The F-16 is the ultimate rate machine, the Flanker's low speed nose pointing authority is legendary. In that event, I bet it'll come down to missiles. I don't think Pakistan has the 9x. So if the Flanker has the R-73/AA-11, I'd have to give it to the Flanker.

One thing's for sure: Anyone with even a passing interest in military aviation will be watching..
.
Not really. According to the Indian press, for the first time, a Mirage 2000 modernized (Mirage 2000I / TI) of the Indian Air Force has validated its ability to implement the air-to-air mica missile on the occasion of a firing of trial. The shot took place against a flying target.

The ability to take the MBDA Mica missile is one of the integrated capabilities of the current Indian Mirage 2000 retrofit. A contract was signed in 2011 with Dassault Aviation, in collaboration with Thales to bring the Indian Mirage 2000Hs, ordered in the 1980s, to a standard similar to that of the Mirage 2000-5.

The renovation includes the integration of the RDY-3 radar, the Totem navigation system, the ICMS Mk-4 electronic warfare suite and a new IFF system. The aircraft are also equipped with the MBDA air-to-air missile carrying capacity.

The first two Indian Mirage 2000I / TI were modernized in Istres by Dassault Aviation and delivered in 2015. A total of fifty hunters must be brought to the new standard. The other devices are modified directly in India, in partnership with the local industry. Mica EM/50mn. Mica Ir/35 mn
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Unread post27 Feb 2019, 21:03

You have to remember that even if India have SU-30's doesn't mean that they use the biggest asset in every occation.
In a scenario like this one, you use the base and units closest to where you are to attack. Hence the use of MiG-21's.
Similar on PAF side, you use the resources closest, weather Mirage, JF-17 or F-16.
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armedupdate

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Unread post27 Feb 2019, 22:03

F-16 should be able to take on SU-30 in BVR. Unlike the F-15 which can Mach 2.5, the SU-30 goes the speed speed as the F-16.
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