Indian Mirage 2000 hits targets in Pakistan

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hythelday

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Unread post01 Mar 2019, 10:57

eloise wrote:The wreckage where they found the series number belongs to Indian aircraft
Capture.PNG


Where can one look up IAF serial numbers?
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eloise

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Unread post01 Mar 2019, 11:33

hythelday wrote:
eloise wrote:The wreckage where they found the series number belongs to Indian aircraft
Capture.PNG


Where can one look up IAF serial numbers?

I mean, Indian claimed the wreckage belong to an F-16 from the series number
But in fact, the wreck is only the other side of the downed Mig-21
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vm

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Unread post01 Mar 2019, 13:07

hythelday wrote:
vm wrote:
vm wrote:In his official press conference after the shooting down of the mig21, the Pakistani maj General, the official spokesperson clearly said that 2 pilots were detained. With one in custody while other was in admitted in hospital.
After the Indians accepted one mig21 with a pilot was missing he changed his official statement to one pilot detained.
With Pakistani eyewitnesses also claiming 2 parachutes being seen, their seems a real possibility that the Pakistanis actually lost a plane and realized late that it was their own plane.
https://youtu.be/EkGeXOiGhBU
At 4.45 he clearly claims that 2 were captured.


If you joined the forum just to push one side's agenda - just quit.

Instead if describing what "eyewitnesses said", maybe post some sources?

Initial oral statements by both sides are WRONG. Either by honest mistake or deliberate lie. India said that all planes returned safely - and had to eat their words. Pakistan said no F-16, but IF that AMRAAM piece is legit they also lied. Can't trust either side.

So far evidence suggests only one MiG-21 downed; not two planes as Pakistan said, not 2+1 as India soon tried to amend; the downed plane is neither a F-16 nor Su-30MKI.

Got some proof overwise? Share, I will gladly change my mind in the face if beliveble evidence.


How about you give me sources to what you said, first?

"Don't give me media references" - well I be damned, but that how info is communicated. Maybe ask me to provide official IAF statement that they lied too? At least you agree with me that Indian media is rubbish.

I have given you a video with the official Pakistani spokesperson saying they have 2 pilots in custody.
Now you give me a similar Indian statement from a OFFICIAL source, not a media story claiming sources.
Their are official sources and unverified sources. I have explained this to you in as simple words as I can. Sorry can't draw pictures for you.
And yes Indian media like media everywhere is rubbish.
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hythelday

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Unread post01 Mar 2019, 13:23

vm wrote:After the Indians accepted one mig21 with a pilot was missing he changed his official statement to one pilot detained.With Pakistani eyewitnesses also claiming 2 parachutes being seen, their seems a real possibility that the Pakistanis actually lost a plane and realized late that it was their own plane.
https://youtu.be/EkGeXOiGhBU
At 4.45 he clearly claims that 2 were captured.


Pakistani claims are false, even official, i.e. denial of F-16 involvement. You are willing to selectively believe them that they have 2 pilots, but don't believe them when they say they brought down two Indian planes.

You are pushing this "two parachute" theory to try to obfuscate and generate false claims that a second plane was brought down, and that the second plane was Pakistani. What Pakistani eyewitnesses? Hearsay isn't going to cut it.

If you have proof of F-16 crash - post it. Otherwise stop this BS.
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mixelflick

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Unread post01 Mar 2019, 13:34

Patriot wrote:mixel

agreed.
Agreed.
Totally AGREED.


Thanks brother...

As for the rest of what's being said here.. I really wish I got high before reading this thread
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Shimud

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Unread post01 Mar 2019, 14:30

This thread is losing substance and facts, rather gearing towards myths and hearsay typical of South Asian folks, who believe in later rather then considering and adhering to the former.
The emotions are running high but the rational approach, i.e. you must never let you emotions overcome your wisdom should always prevail.

A few points to consider before you guys start the war of words once again.

Indians made a botched attempt to carry out a cross-border hit on alleged JeM training camp. Failed.
They dropped the lump of metal but had no idea where they are dropping it.
Check this link (Its from Atlantic Council's Digital Forensic Research Lab):
https://medium.com/dfrlab/surgical-stri ... 6cda834b24

Next, they called a press conference where their high ranking foreign officials made a blatant lie of eliminating 300+ folks.
What a shame. Despicable.

The pictures included in the link above correspond with what the Pakistanis presented to the world later on, with an official word from their military spokesperson that Indians did attempt but fled without causing any man or material damage.
(By the way, the attack did kill a crow! I am not kidding.)

Pakistanis announced that they will follow suit. And they did.
Lured Indian aircraft and shot down atleast 1. Indian pilot was in their custody and I think due to be relased today.
The wreckage presented by Pakistanis is nothing but a MiG-21.
(Indians are presenting it as a Pakistani F-16, with the wreckage inside Pakistani territory and hell bent to prove that its an F-16. For God's sake how low can one go....)

Mind it that the wreckage lying on the ground in Indian controlled Kashmir is a chopper, Mi-17, with six souls perished.

There is nothing more. Nothing less.
The AMRAAM, with dubious credentials, has been introduced in the story. This thread contains the history of the specific missile. It doesn't belong to India or Pakistan.
Where did it come from, crashed chopper or did it fell out of sky itself? If the crashed F-16 is lying in Pakistan, how come AMRAAM landed in India? Did it hit the chopper or MiG-21? If its later, why isn't it lying with MiG?
Pakistanis say that they have not used F-16s rather JF-17s. God knows if they have used an F7-PG for it.

Three guys falling out of sky, two aircraft hits by Pakistan, an F-16 gone, an Su-30MKI gone, AMRAAMs used....and add more spices, together with a pinch of salt, the recipe is perfect for the consumption of South asians.

The funniest part is the Indian claim that 24 Pakistani aircraft attached them and they defended with 8.
Speaks volumes regarding how capable IAF is. 24 birds and no kill? (Do not bring in fictitious F-16 kill in the story again :doh: )

Peace and prosperity to all of you and think before you write.
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Unread post01 Mar 2019, 14:58

There's a few good ways to prove beyond contestation bringing down the other air force's jet without showing its wrackage at all.

The fact nothing like this happened to this far tells me:
a) no other fighter really crashed there other than indian MiG-21 likely bringed down by pakistani fire
b) assuming a) as an actuality both sides have done "their best" to push the narrative that showcases them in a best way possible at the same time actively dissmissing the achievments of the enemy either real or fictional.
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botsing

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Unread post01 Mar 2019, 15:07

Patriot wrote:There's a few good ways to prove beyond contestation bringing down the other air force's jet without showing its wrackage at all.

What are these "few good ways"?
"Those who know don’t talk. Those who talk don’t know"
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Patriot

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Unread post01 Mar 2019, 15:14

botsing wrote:What are these "few good ways"?


- Satellite Imagining
- Sensor telemetry data
- Radar Picture
- Audio records from the fight
- HUD cam recordings
- Targeting pods recordings in IR or TV mode
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botsing

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Unread post01 Mar 2019, 15:23

Patriot wrote:
botsing wrote:What are these "few good ways"?


- Satellite Imagining
- Sensor telemetry data
- Radar Picture
- Audio records from the fight
- HUD cam recordings
- Targeting pods recordings in IR or TV mode

So in essence everything that is pretty easy to fake these days?

For crash sites you can invite the independent foreign press to visit the wreckage, but data is just data and easy to manipulate.

Ps, LOL @ "Satellite Imagining"
"Those who know don’t talk. Those who talk don’t know"
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tbarlow

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Unread post01 Mar 2019, 15:27

I can't wait to see which Viper scored the air-to-air kill!
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vilters

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Unread post01 Mar 2019, 15:36

tbarlow wrote:I can't wait to see which Viper scored the air-to-air kill!


LOL, none of them did that.

The 120 plate came from a scrap e-bay sale.
Bought for : "Well, one never knows when it might become handy". (At least we got one with believable numbers, I hope? ? ? )
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Patriot

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Unread post01 Mar 2019, 15:36

Sat Imagery. My korean dumbphone autocorrect is quite faulty.

I dont think it's that easy to manipulate.
Look how many audio-visual evidence is avilable from Agean Sea where Greeks and Turks throw iron on each other on daily basis basically. Look on Baltic Air policing mission over Baltic states - how many youtube videos emerged from it. Does anybody question it?

Moreover. If one side step forward and put a substancial evidence against the other - the other side is forced to respond but not on a rethorical level as we witnessed so far.
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basher54321

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Unread post01 Mar 2019, 15:43

Shimud wrote:
There is nothing more. Nothing less.
The AMRAAM, with dubious credentials, has been introduced in the story. This thread contains the history of the specific missile. It doesn't belong to India or Pakistan.
Where did it come from, crashed chopper or did it fell out of sky itself? If the crashed F-16 is lying in Pakistan, how come AMRAAM landed in India? Did it hit the chopper or MiG-21? If its later, why isn't it lying with MiG?


If it is a forgery it needed to be pretty good with the correct numbers on it especially considering if they are trying to influence the US. The US can check where that missile came from very quickly so India would look very stupid considering it appears to be IAF personnel at that press conference.

Most likely considering it is nowhere near anything else - it was fired at an aerial target. It might have hit something, or it might not have hit anything other than the ground. Could it have fallen off an F-16 by itself - anything is possible but this just has a far lower probability. (also as mentioned earlier the chopper crashed ~120KM from the border.)

F-16s could have been covering the strikers on their way back into Pakistan territory so could have engaged MiGs chasing any of those in which case they could argue they were still being used in a self defence role.

Then insert scenario XYZ because this is all pie in the sky at the moment. Will Pakistan release similar stories as the Indians have and will they match up or will they just leave it at that.
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botsing

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Unread post01 Mar 2019, 15:49

Patriot wrote:Moreover. If one side step forward and put a substancial evidence against the other - the other side is forced to respond but not on a rethorical level as we witnessed so far.

It has to be substantial first, like showing an actual wreck.

The AIM-120 part is a good example on how hard it is to give actual substantial evidence: there is already enough FUD going on that its legitimacy is (rightly?) in doubt by many.
"Those who know don’t talk. Those who talk don’t know"
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