FULL PDF: Poststall flight in close combat

Unread postPosted: 05 Jun 2018, 02:22
by gta4
https://arc.aiaa.org/doi/abs/10.2514/6.1983-2120

A computer simulation of close range gun fight between aircraft A and B.

Aircraft A: has far better conventional turn capability than fulcrums and flankers (aircraft A can acheive almost 30 deg/sec SUSTAINED!)
Aircraft B: similar to F-35, it can perform J-turn. However its other performances are inferior to F-35. Its T/W is only 0.75.

Result: Aircraft B dominates the dogfight. Even we give some initial positional advantage to A for free, this advantage is quickly neutrlized in less than one turn.

FULL PDF:
Poststall Flight in Close Combat.pdf
(282.36 KiB) Downloaded 639 times

Re: AIAA proof: F-35 can defeat all non-thrust vectored jets

Unread postPosted: 05 Jun 2018, 03:57
by wrightwing
Can you post more of the PDF?

Re: AIAA proof: F-35 can defeat all non-thrust vectored jets

Unread postPosted: 05 Jun 2018, 06:39
by garrya
I can't download the PDF either.
IIRC, they found out from X-31 test that post stall maneuver can be countered by going vertical

Re: AIAA proof: F-35 can defeat all non-thrust vectored jets

Unread postPosted: 05 Jun 2018, 10:31
by juretrn
FFS gta4, give it a rest with the freaking J-turn already. Sounds exactly like Flanker groupies with their incessant "muh TV"...

Re: AIAA proof: F-35 can defeat all non-thrust vectored jets

Unread postPosted: 05 Jun 2018, 14:46
by lbk000
Muh Cobra

Re: AIAA proof: F-35 can defeat all non-thrust vectored jets

Unread postPosted: 05 Jun 2018, 15:15
by vilters
Loose speed = Loose fight.

You can add a ton af math profs, and another ton of simms to the game.

In the end?
Loose speed = loose fight.


Believing in a 100% kill probability (or the lucky shot) is like playing the lottery. => Extremely few winners.
Wanna bet?

Re: AIAA proof: F-35 can defeat all non-thrust vectored jets

Unread postPosted: 05 Jun 2018, 15:23
by spazsinbad
Lose vs. Loose vs. Loosen: What’s the Difference? https://writingexplained.org/lose-versu ... difference

Re: AIAA proof: F-35 can defeat all non-thrust vectored jets

Unread postPosted: 05 Jun 2018, 15:34
by steve2267
vilters wrote:Loose speed = Loose fight.

You can add a ton af math profs, and another ton of simms to the game.

In the end?
Loose speed = loose fight.


Believing in a 100% kill probability (or the lucky shot) is like playing the lottery. => Extremely few winners.
Wanna bet?


This is an oversimplification.

Yes, speed is life, and in general one wants to keep one's energy up. But as QS has stated here before, many a lesser experienced pilot has "energy managed" himself into a mort. The really good pilots know when to trade their energy chips in for an angles advantage and get the kill. It all "depends", but it is what makes a good Hornet pilot so dangerous.

What appears to make the F-35 so dangerous is that it apparently can do both -- either play the energy game, or play the trade-energy-for-angles game (i.e. high alpha). So the F-35 would appear to really reward the savvy fighter pilot.

Re: AIAA proof: F-35 can defeat all non-thrust vectored jets

Unread postPosted: 05 Jun 2018, 16:49
by gta4
OK here is the FULL PDF:
Poststall Flight in Close Combat.pdf
(282.36 KiB) Downloaded 522 times

Re: FULL PDF: F-35 can defeat all non-thrust vectored jets

Unread postPosted: 05 Jun 2018, 17:05
by sferrin
Click bait title. :slap:

Re: AIAA proof: F-35 can defeat all non-thrust vectored jets

Unread postPosted: 05 Jun 2018, 17:06
by sferrin
vilters wrote:Loose speed = Loose fight.

You can add a ton af math profs, and another ton of simms to the game.

In the end?
Loose speed = loose fight.


Believing in a 100% kill probability (or the lucky shot) is like playing the lottery. => Extremely few winners.
Wanna bet?


So Cobra and all those other fancy Flanker maneuvers are useless right? Right?

Re: AIAA proof: F-35 can defeat all non-thrust vectored jets

Unread postPosted: 05 Jun 2018, 17:21
by gta4
sferrin wrote:
vilters wrote:Loose speed = Loose fight.

You can add a ton af math profs, and another ton of simms to the game.

In the end?
Loose speed = loose fight.


Believing in a 100% kill probability (or the lucky shot) is like playing the lottery. => Extremely few winners.
Wanna bet?


So Cobra and all those other fancy Flanker maneuvers are useless right? Right?

cobra is useless Because no matter How much angle It pitch up, It will be bounced back immediately, neutralizing the total angle of pointing.
The maneuver studied in this paper is J turn , which has 180deg heading reversal. It has Very high effective angle of pointing.

Re: AIAA proof: F-35 can defeat all non-thrust vectored jets

Unread postPosted: 05 Jun 2018, 17:35
by basher54321
garrya wrote:IIRC, they found out from X-31 test that post stall maneuver can be countered by going vertical



My favourite part was where the NASA author stated they had pretty much just relearnt a lesson from WW1 :D