USAF pilot critiques Red Flag action

Discuss air warfare, doctrine, air forces, historic campaigns, etc.
  • Author
  • Message
Offline

elp

Elite 3K

Elite 3K

  • Posts: 3143
  • Joined: 23 Sep 2003, 20:08

Unread post08 Nov 2008, 11:58

cobzz wrote:Hello;

It's Cobzz here, or as my Youtube name is, "Arnaage". Although the free advertising for my account was nice, I decided to delete the video; apparently many people thought it reflected badly on the United States Air Force. Obviously that is something that I see as unacceptable, whether I, or you, agree with it or not. Furthermore, you have no idea about the amount of personal attacks I have received - although I have more videos, I am sure not going to upload anything, ever, again. :roll:

If you must view the video, search for "IAF lecture" on youtube. It is on another users account who stumbled onto the same video.

Thanks.

In retrospect, had I of seen this thread earlier, it would likely of stayed up.



Already did a keepvid.com
- ELP -
Offline
User avatar

PhillyGuy

Forum Veteran

Forum Veteran

  • Posts: 637
  • Joined: 29 Sep 2006, 03:07

Unread post10 Nov 2008, 01:34

Now consider the Colonel's comments after reading this F-35 analyses, especially the bit about its aerodynamics and maneuverability.

http://www.livescience.com/technology/0 ... -jets.html
"Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest."
Offline

biffbutkus

Active Member

Active Member

  • Posts: 106
  • Joined: 24 Mar 2007, 19:05

Unread post10 Nov 2008, 02:26

cobzz wrote:Hello;

It's Cobzz here, or as my Youtube name is, "Arnaage". Although the free advertising for my account was nice, I decided to delete the video; apparently many people thought it reflected badly on the United States Air Force. Obviously that is something that I see as unacceptable, whether I, or you, agree with it or not. Furthermore, you have no idea about the amount of personal attacks I have received - although I have more videos, I am sure not going to upload anything, ever, again. :roll:

If you must view the video, search for "IAF lecture" on youtube. It is on another users account who stumbled onto the same video.

Thanks.

In retrospect, had I of seen this thread earlier, it would likely of stayed up.


I'm sure they are just trolls and children...after the Cope India results were front page news in India, all the teenage (or simply immature adults) Indian kids were chest beating on many aviation and defense forums. The truth is hard for them to accept....and that is NOT your fault. Besides, the briefer was VERY complementary on the Indian's flying skills and professionalism and his main "criticism" was with the non-compatible Russian data link and the several holes in the MKI's overall game.

Anyway, thanks for posting the vids!
USAF B52 ECM TECH '92-'97
Flight Sim In-Flight Technician
Charter Member Virtual Mile High Club
Offline

Scorpion1alpha

F-16.net Moderator

F-16.net Moderator

  • Posts: 1659
  • Joined: 21 Oct 2005, 00:47

Unread post11 Nov 2008, 06:01

But he faulted the fact that it carries too few missiles


I found this statement odd. On average, the F-22 carries as many AAMs as any other fighter. Try putting more AAMs on Eagles, Vipers, or Hornets and be slick and stealthy.


But when the Indian pilots really learn to fight their new aircraft - "they were too anxious to go to the post-stall maneuver," he says-- the USAF pilot predicts that they would regularly defeat the F-16C Block 50 and the F-15C with conventional radar.


Which is why we should not and will not discount the MKI or and any upgraded Flanker variant. It's just a matter of time when they'll get "very" proficient with their aircraft and weapons.
Offline

Asif

F-16.net Editor

F-16.net Editor

  • Posts: 3063
  • Joined: 23 Aug 2003, 12:02

Unread post18 Nov 2008, 16:51

Expressbuzz wrote:‘Red Flag’ official apologises to IAF

Gautam Datt
First Published : 18 Nov 2008 02:04:00 AM IST
Last Updated : 18 Nov 2008 04:38:45 PM IST

NEW DELHI: After a US Air Force (USAF) pilot was shown in a YouTube clip trashing India’s frontline fighter jet Su-30 MKI saying it failed to impress during the recently held Red Flag war games, the organisers of the exercise have apologised to the Indian Air Force (IAF) for the remarks.

In a letter to Air Headquarters, an official of the Red Flag said it was the personal view of the USAF pilot talking in the clip and not of those involved in the exercise.

The organisers are looking forward for the participation of the IAF in the future editions of Red Flag, said the letter.

The appearance of the clip in the cyber space had embarrassed the IAF even as it was immediately rubbished. The clip shows a pilot apparently giving a presentation but there are no audience shown in the video.

The person, in uniform, talks about how the Su-30 MKIs were dominated by USAF’s F-15s and F-22 Raptors.

The person said in the clip how the aircraft lost out during dogfights and singled out problems with its thrust vectoring and the fact that it took up to a minute to arrange its take-off while the rest of the aircraft took only seconds.

The official, however, praised IAF’s MiG- 21 Bison which has been modified with Israeli radar, active radar missiles and electronic jammers. He claimed MiG-21s were nearly invisible to the F-15 and F-16s, a fact which was demonstrated when the USAF fighters had taken part in joint exercises in India. After the clip surfaced, the IAF took up the issue with defence attaché in the US embassy and efforts were made to get it removed.

The officials said some of the technical claims made in the clip were incorrect and it was a pathetic attempt to prove a point.

Aviation expert Pushpender Singh told to this website’s newspaper that it was unfortunate that the most powerful air force in the world was resorting to such tactics. He said the video was full of inaccuracies. For example, the person in the video claimed that the MiG-21 Bisons were equipped with the Israeli radar.

“It is wrong. The aircraft has a Russian radar,” said Singh.

The clip is being viewed as a ploy by the industry to prove a point. It might be an attempt to convince the US Government in ordering more F-22 Raptors. The US aviation giants Boeing and Lockheed Martin, the makers of F-16s and F-18s, are also competing with Russians for multi-billion dollar contract to supply multi-role combat aircraft to the IAF.

source: http://www.expressbuzz.com/edition/stor ... IsSU=&SEO=
Asif Shamim
F-16.net Editorial staff & Patch Gallery Administration
Offline

TC

F-16.net Moderator

F-16.net Moderator

  • Posts: 3998
  • Joined: 14 Jan 2004, 07:06

Unread post18 Nov 2008, 20:41

Some good stuff on here, and it's basically the same stuff that we've been trying to hammer into the fanboys' heads for a few years around here.

Of course, he held some stuff back about the Raptor, but that should've been obvious.

And didn't we already have a discussion about "airshow"-type yanking and banking, and how useless some of those wow-factor maneuvers are in a realistic environment? He hit the nail on the head.

Kind of surprises me that he said the French would lurk in Bahrain, trying to gain ELINT. OTOH, in ODS, more of the fighting was further south. Our forces weren't in country, like they are now, so it does make a little more sense. Bahrain is the next country down the Saudi coastline from Kuwait, so if they flew to a particular spot in the Gulf...

As for the above article, I seriously doubt that the USAF would have found the need to apologize to the IAF over this video. There really wasn't anything to apologize about. He was very complimentary of India and their cooperation, but just noted the difficulties of dealing with a combination of Russian and American equipment.

BTW, I don't mean that to be towards you Asif, rather towards the author of that article.
Offline

Asif

F-16.net Editor

F-16.net Editor

  • Posts: 3063
  • Joined: 23 Aug 2003, 12:02

Unread post18 Nov 2008, 21:00

TC wrote: BTW, I don't mean that to be towards you Asif, rather towards the author of that article.


None taken. I just report what I find and leave it to you guys to comment :D
Asif Shamim
F-16.net Editorial staff & Patch Gallery Administration
Offline

outlaw162

Elite 1K

Elite 1K

  • Posts: 1429
  • Joined: 28 Feb 2008, 02:33

Unread post19 Nov 2008, 00:39

If you absolutely know you have an advantage, there's absolutely no reason to say anything, to anybody.

If you're not sure, one might muddy the water a little in an attempt to keep everyone guessing.

"Talk softly (or possibly not at all) & carry a big stick."

A concept that's been absent in the US for about 8 years.

regards, OL
Offline

TC

F-16.net Moderator

F-16.net Moderator

  • Posts: 3998
  • Joined: 14 Jan 2004, 07:06

Unread post19 Nov 2008, 00:53

Point well taken Outlaw. I know there's been one or two times in my life when I should've drank a nice warm glass of shut the foxtrot up, but you know...sometimes for whatever reason, we just don't seem to get it.

That being said, I won't discredit the guy. He is a patch wearer, and knows his Sierra, but...OTOH, would I have been the guy to make a youtube video? Not unless my boss told me to.

That's my story and I'm stickin' to it!
Offline

outlaw162

Elite 1K

Elite 1K

  • Posts: 1429
  • Joined: 28 Feb 2008, 02:33

Unread post19 Nov 2008, 00:59

It is possible to be stupid, arrogant and correct all at the same time.

:D

regards, OL

(I'm referring to the patch wearer)
Offline

TC

F-16.net Moderator

F-16.net Moderator

  • Posts: 3998
  • Joined: 14 Jan 2004, 07:06

Unread post19 Nov 2008, 01:08

:lol: Yeah, I thought you were referring to him, but you could've said "referring to TC" and you would've still been correct. :P
Offline

cobzz

Active Member

Active Member

  • Posts: 111
  • Joined: 07 Nov 2008, 12:56

Unread post19 Nov 2008, 07:08

Author of that article is a retard. Read my comments on its page. :lol:
Offline

blain2

Enthusiast

Enthusiast

  • Posts: 67
  • Joined: 13 Apr 2005, 16:52

Unread post26 Nov 2008, 06:54

Well the problem with the video for many of the IAF fans is that the comments made in the video make them look bad for one reason or the other. This issue has become such a big deal that now Col Fornof's pictures and professional information is being put up on blogs so he can be insulted by fan boys all over. http://livefist.blogspot.com/2008/11/pr ... lonel.html

Can't recall another multi-national ex. which generated as much ill-will as this one.
Offline

ATFS_Crash

Forum Veteran

Forum Veteran

  • Posts: 760
  • Joined: 15 Dec 2006, 00:28

Unread post26 Nov 2008, 07:59

blain2 wrote:Well the problem with the video for many of the IAF fans is that the comments made in the video make them look bad for one reason or the other. This issue has become such a big deal that now Col Fornof's pictures and professional information is being put up on blogs so he can be insulted by fan boys all over. http://livefist.blogspot.com/2008/11/pr ... lonel.html

Can't recall another multi-national ex. which generated as much ill-will as this one.

I thought this was just more of the same, just a different flavor.

I thought there was a similar stink with the roles reversed after Cope India. I thought that some IAF pilots were rather braggadocio’s and rather critical of US pilots. I thought it became such an embarrassment that the IAF pilots or officials issued apologies and perhaps there was token punishments?

I thought this critique was both critical and complementary of the Indian pilots and aircraft. I think he basically hinted that the next time that he suspects that we will come up on the short end of the stick.
Offline

cobzz

Active Member

Active Member

  • Posts: 111
  • Joined: 07 Nov 2008, 12:56

Unread post26 Nov 2008, 08:25

blain2 wrote:Well the problem with the video for many of the IAF fans is that the comments made in the video make them look bad for one reason or the other. This issue has become such a big deal that now Col Fornof's pictures and professional information is being put up on blogs so he can be insulted by fan boys all over. http://livefist.blogspot.com/2008/11/pr ... lonel.html

Can't recall another multi-national ex. which generated as much ill-will as this one.

Very well then.

The author of that blog was shivaroor@gmail.com. Email your, 'concerns'.
PreviousNext

Return to Air Power

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests