Legacy Hornet vs Su-30MKM

Military aircraft - Post cold war aircraft, including for example B-2, Gripen, F-18E/F Super Hornet, Rafale, and Typhoon.
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hornetfinn

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Unread post17 Sep 2020, 09:22

It's interesting that the AN/APG-79(V)4 going into Classic Hornets has vertical array instead of tilted array as in Super Hornet version. Probably because of lack of space and also because it won't matter much for the RCS of the whole aircraft. I think it might actually have about the same number of T/R modules as SH version, which could give it very similar performance depending on cooling and power available. Anyway this is pretty important upgrade for keeping the Classic Hornets viable for the rest of their service life.

I wonder if there would've been interest for these upgrades with other user nations if they were available 5-10 years earlier? Probably not enough money for those around except maybe in Kuwait.
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Corsair1963

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Unread post17 Sep 2020, 10:30

hornetfinn wrote:It's interesting that the AN/APG-79(V)4 going into Classic Hornets has vertical array instead of tilted array as in Super Hornet version. Probably because of lack of space and also because it won't matter much for the RCS of the whole aircraft. I think it might actually have about the same number of T/R modules as SH version, which could give it very similar performance depending on cooling and power available. Anyway this is pretty important upgrade for keeping the Classic Hornets viable for the rest of their service life.

I wonder if there would've been interest for these upgrades with other user nations if they were available 5-10 years earlier? Probably not enough money for those around except maybe in Kuwait.



Surprising the US will upgrade them. Considering they aren't going to be around long.... :?

Yet, I wouldn't be surprised if other Hornet Customer don't take advantage of the upgrade though...
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hornetfinn

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Unread post17 Sep 2020, 11:37

Corsair1963 wrote:Yet, I wouldn't be surprised if other Hornet Customer don't take advantage of the upgrade though...


Maybe this is the way to extend the service life of Canadian Hornets for another couple of decades and forget about replacing them... :roll: :P

Otherwise I think these upgrades come a bit too late for most current users and will not find any other takers.
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hornetfinn

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Unread post17 Sep 2020, 11:46

Btw, here is interesting short video within Finnish F/A-18C intake.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1306540271715446784

The tweet itself is about recruiting NCO.
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boogieman

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Unread post17 Sep 2020, 13:26

Some more southern hemisphere Hornet porn:



This time it's a Rafale guest starring in the gun cam (3:56) :wink:
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hornetfinn

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Unread post18 Sep 2020, 12:19

boogieman wrote:Some more southern hemisphere Hornet porn:

This time it's a Rafale guest starring in the gun cam (3:56) :wink:


Thanks, awesome video! It seemed that Hornet was doing some pretty high alpha in that engagement... 8)
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boogieman

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Unread post18 Sep 2020, 12:35

No worries. Yep, well I imagine if you're flying BFM in a legacy Hornet against the Rafale, then low speed/high alpha is probably where you'd want the fight to be. Easier said than done mind you - the Rafale must have been a tough customer indeed.
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Unread post21 Sep 2020, 13:18

Word here that the SU-30 and SU-35 may be "merged" into a common Super Flanker for future front line units. This is waving the white flag IMO, as they have no designs on producing a stealthy, 5th gen in any significant numbers. I mean, they don't even have any plans for it.

https://militarywatchmagazine.com/artic ... after-2027

I realize we too are re-tooling with the F-15EX. But even counting upgraded/AESA equipped F-16's, this is a relative sliver of the entire force. And no, I don't buy the Mig-41 being 6th gen. I don't even think it'll make it to production. Even if it does, it'll be a Russia only/very specialized airframe built in small numbers..
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Corsair1963

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Unread post22 Sep 2020, 02:25

mixelflick wrote:Word here that the SU-30 and SU-35 may be "merged" into a common Super Flanker for future front line units. This is waving the white flag IMO, as they have no designs on producing a stealthy, 5th gen in any significant numbers. I mean, they don't even have any plans for it.

https://militarywatchmagazine.com/artic ... after-2027

I realize we too are re-tooling with the F-15EX. But even counting upgraded/AESA equipped F-16's, this is a relative sliver of the entire force. And no, I don't buy the Mig-41 being 6th gen. I don't even think it'll make it to production. Even if it does, it'll be a Russia only/very specialized airframe built in small numbers..



Which, is why the RuAF will quickly become a second rate Air Force Post 2030. (if not before) :?
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Unread post22 Sep 2020, 15:55

Corsair1963 wrote:
mixelflick wrote:Word here that the SU-30 and SU-35 may be "merged" into a common Super Flanker for future front line units. This is waving the white flag IMO, as they have no designs on producing a stealthy, 5th gen in any significant numbers. I mean, they don't even have any plans for it.

https://militarywatchmagazine.com/artic ... after-2027

I realize we too are re-tooling with the F-15EX. But even counting upgraded/AESA equipped F-16's, this is a relative sliver of the entire force. And no, I don't buy the Mig-41 being 6th gen. I don't even think it'll make it to production. Even if it does, it'll be a Russia only/very specialized airframe built in small numbers..



Which, is why the RuAF will quickly become a second rate Air Force Post 2030. (if not before) :?


I agree, but it's sad really. Think about the limited resources those engineers had to work with, the system they were constrained by and always being one step behind in avionics, engines etc.. Given all of that, I thought they did an outstanding job in building aircraft that could compete with the F-15, 16, 18 etc.. In fact, I think their airframes are every bit as good as ours.

The problem is.... everything else. Radar/sensors, weapons, engines, manufacturing tolerances etc. I would LOVE to see what someone from the Mikoyan or Sukhoi design bureau would come up with, were he to move to the US and work for Boeing/Lockheed. Now THAT would be something..
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Corsair1963

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Unread post23 Sep 2020, 03:16

mixelflick wrote:
Corsair1963 wrote:
mixelflick wrote:Word here that the SU-30 and SU-35 may be "merged" into a common Super Flanker for future front line units. This is waving the white flag IMO, as they have no designs on producing a stealthy, 5th gen in any significant numbers. I mean, they don't even have any plans for it.

https://militarywatchmagazine.com/artic ... after-2027

I realize we too are re-tooling with the F-15EX. But even counting upgraded/AESA equipped F-16's, this is a relative sliver of the entire force. And no, I don't buy the Mig-41 being 6th gen. I don't even think it'll make it to production. Even if it does, it'll be a Russia only/very specialized airframe built in small numbers..



Which, is why the RuAF will quickly become a second rate Air Force Post 2030. (if not before) :?


I agree, but it's sad really. Think about the limited resources those engineers had to work with, the system they were constrained by and always being one step behind in avionics, engines etc.. Given all of that, I thought they did an outstanding job in building aircraft that could compete with the F-15, 16, 18 etc.. In fact, I think their airframes are every bit as good as ours.

The problem is.... everything else. Radar/sensors, weapons, engines, manufacturing tolerances etc. I would LOVE to see what someone from the Mikoyan or Sukhoi design bureau would come up with, were he to move to the US and work for Boeing/Lockheed. Now THAT would be something..


Their biggest mistake was to develop the PAK-FA (Su-57) over the Mikoyan LMFS. Which, could have been produced in volume and likely exported in at least modest numbers. Russia wasn't ever going to be able to fund two Stealth Fighters in a Hi/Low Mix. So, why they would pursue a heavy fighter only is beyond me. Either from a domestic point of view or export.......
:?
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boogieman

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Unread post23 Sep 2020, 03:46

My suspicion is that the problem was propulsion. They never had an F135 equivalent so I'd posit that this put them in a bind with a smaller fighter. In essence it was: acceptable payload, acceptable T/W, acceptable sig reduction - pick two. Same problem the J31 seems to have now.
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Unread post23 Sep 2020, 05:33

boogieman wrote:My suspicion is that the problem was propulsion. They never had an F135 equivalent so I'd posit that this put them in a bind with a smaller fighter. In essence it was: acceptable payload, acceptable T/W, acceptable sig reduction - pick two. Same problem the J31 seems to have now.



They could have easily built the Mikoyan LMFS with two modified RD-33/RD-93's. Which, likely would have included the VK-10M. That has a larger compressor. This would give the LMFS ~ 22000 - 24000 lbs of thrust per engine. (44,000 - 48,000 lbs max)

Yet, that's spilled milk and no turning back now.... :?


Of course this is why I keep coming back to the J-31. Which, could be Russia's savior. As they could build it under license and with considerable amount of Russian Components. (Engines, Avionics, and Weapons)

This would give Russia (Putin) considerable political cover. As it could be sold to the masses as a "joint fighter program" with high Russian Content.

While, many believe such a deal is pure fiction. I've yet to see anyone come up with another viable alternative either.... :wink:
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Unread post23 Sep 2020, 07:01

Russian SU-35 accidentally shoots down SU-30SM!


On Tuesday, September 22, in the Tver region (Russia), a Su-30 aircraft crashed during a scheduled training flight. According to reports on military forums, he was accidentally shot down by another aircraft during training sparring in air combat.

The plane crash is reported by Interfax with reference to the press service of the Western Military District.

According to the information released to the public, the fighter crashed in a forest, and the aircraft crew managed to eject. There were no fires or destructions during the disaster; the pilots were evacuated to the home airfield.




While the reasons and circumstances are established by a special commission, the first details of this incident appeared.




According to a report on the Military Informant Telegram channel , on the Su-35S fighter, which was sparring with the crashed Su-30SM, the missiles were removed after combat duty, but the gun was not discharged due to an oversight. Instead of shooting, he unexpectedly fired a real volley from a cannon for everyone.




https://apostrophe.ua/news/world/ex-uss ... let/209935
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boogieman

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Unread post23 Sep 2020, 08:30

^Well that's awkward. Is it even necessary to squeeze the trigger in BFM? I would have thought a stable gun track held on target ought to be sufficient. Someone is about to get raked over the coals methinks...
Corsair1963 wrote:They could have easily built the Mikoyan LMFS with two modified RD-33/RD-93's. Which, likely would have included the VK-10M. That has a larger compressor. This would give the LMFS ~ 22000 - 24000 lbs of thrust per engine. (44,000 - 48,000 lbs max)

Yet, that's spilled milk and no turning back now.... :?
:

How much of a weapon's bay/internal payload would that give you though? Two engines plus tight size constraints leaves me guessing the answer would be "not much". The J31 seems to be a flying embodiment of this from what I can tell.
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