Page 19 of 23

Re: J-20 goes operational again

Unread postPosted: 30 Jul 2020, 12:35
by boogieman
Yes, although the likelihood of Xi following through on the threat would be rather different! I suspect it would ultimately depend on the specific scenario and how committed the PRC were to their strategic objectives.

A no-fly zone sounds good in theory, but if the PRC felt confident in their ability to prevail I don't see why they would be deterred or even influenced by it.

Re: J-20 goes operational again

Unread postPosted: 30 Jul 2020, 14:28
by weasel1962
And if it fails as a deterrent, what it does do is to delimit/predefine the combat zone. That should reduce the risk of nuke escalation.

Re: J-20 goes operational again

Unread postPosted: 30 Jul 2020, 14:52
by sprstdlyscottsmn
nuke escalation is an omnipresent threat, but it is also 100% suicide. As soon as one nation launches a nuke the whole world ends.

Re: J-20 goes operational again

Unread postPosted: 30 Jul 2020, 22:02
by jessmo112
sprstdlyscottsmn wrote:nuke escalation is an omnipresent threat, but it is also 100% suicide. As soon as one nation launches a nuke the whole world ends.


No, not the whole world, lol only China ends.
You guys are behaving like China could match us nuke for nuke.

Re: J-20 goes operational again

Unread postPosted: 30 Jul 2020, 22:05
by sprstdlyscottsmn
They don't have to match us

Re: J-20 goes operational again

Unread postPosted: 30 Jul 2020, 22:53
by nutshell
charlielima223 wrote:
nutshell wrote:Wasnt "Chip" Burke the one that accidently spilled the beans on the F35 not getting painted by S300? (RedFlag 17 or 18, memory is failing).

Was a pilot, anyway.


It could've been, he is the most vocal of the F-35s capabilities. Then again its been pretty much echoed by F-22 and F-35 pilots and planners, basically staying undetected in various exercises until the last moment.

Not just staying undetected but just how good the sensors are. F-22 and F-35s have been outsmarting the test and training ranges...

https://breakingdefense.com/2016/11/f-2 ... ges-awacs/


Ive watched a video of an american pilot explaining how the spike management """""works""""""".

Pulling a James Harden, dribbling your way past dozen of AA sams must be the ultimate "feels good man" moment.

Re: J-20 goes operational again

Unread postPosted: 31 Jul 2020, 08:54
by loke
F-22, F-35 (and B-2) are amazing and very difficult to handle. However China is big and the target list would be very long.

Look at Libya, a tiny fraction of China, it also had quite outdated SAMs. Still the number of cruise missiles and other munitions launched in Libya was quite staggering.

The US would run out of ammunition long before they run out of targets in China.

Re: J-20 goes operational again

Unread postPosted: 31 Jul 2020, 10:10
by jessmo112
loke wrote:F-22, F-35 (and B-2) are amazing and very difficult to handle. However China is big and the target list would be very long.

Look at Libya, a tiny fraction of China, it also had quite outdated SAMs. Still the number of cruise missiles and other munitions launched in Libya was quite staggering.

The US would run out of ammunition long before they run out of targets in China.


This is true andca very big concern. Im not sure if we would run out of Jdam kits but Jsow, Jassm, SDB, and Other stand off weapons woukd run out in a week.
I thought the USAF was working on A kit that turns a dumb bomb into a cheap cruise missile

Re: J-20 goes operational again

Unread postPosted: 31 Jul 2020, 12:43
by nutshell
loke wrote:F-22, F-35 (and B-2) are amazing and very difficult to handle. However China is big and the target list would be very long.

Look at Libya, a tiny fraction of China, it also had quite outdated SAMs. Still the number of cruise missiles and other munitions launched in Libya was quite staggering.

The US would run out of ammunition long before they run out of targets in China.


War is unsustainable for both way. More so if it's your soil that is hosting the conflict.

You only need to hit "that much" to force your opponent to sit on a table.

Re: J-20 goes operational again

Unread postPosted: 31 Jul 2020, 15:14
by milosh
jessmo112 wrote:
sprstdlyscottsmn wrote:nuke escalation is an omnipresent threat, but it is also 100% suicide. As soon as one nation launches a nuke the whole world ends.


No, not the whole world, lol only China ends.
You guys are behaving like China could match us nuke for nuke.


No one really knows how many ICBM China have but with its massive rural population they don't need to have many, their economy for sure will allow them to match US or Russia if they really want.

Re: J-20 goes operational again

Unread postPosted: 31 Jul 2020, 15:33
by milosh
charlielima223 wrote:
milosh wrote: On other hand I don't see from where F-35 will get info expect from its own radar. E-3 replacement isn't even on paper and even that can't detect J-20/31 from safe distance.

So from defensive standpoint Chinese stealths have noticable advantage over F-35, on other hand they will be in similar problem if they attack Japan for example. Then ground radars and SAM will be big bonus to F-35.


F-22 and F-35 require little to no support from E-3 and E-2 or other aircraft of similar role/capacity. Their own radars, sensors, and integration with the same aircraft type allow for their own self contained capability. This has been echoed by both F-22 and F-35 pilots and strategists.
This has been seen in high end exercises with F-22 and F-35s flying ahead of everyone else. In Syria F-22s were used as forward ISR.

In a hypothetical of a Chinese J-20 or J-31 attempting to penetrate in Japanese airspace (trying to act stupid) will have a harder time than an F-35 going into Chinese airspace. The main reason I can think of this is because of the F-35s ability to connect and communicate with other systems and platforms.


E-3 or E-2 or any other AWACS is past with new weapons. I am talking about big stealthy drone which fly with J-20/31 and provide them multiband radar picture. You can put big a$$ L/S-band antennas in that thing and also X-band antennas. That is what China right now is doing with Divine Eagle. If they succeed they will have noticeable advantage.

Re: J-20 goes operational again

Unread postPosted: 31 Jul 2020, 16:22
by jessmo112
milosh wrote:
charlielima223 wrote:
milosh wrote: On other hand I don't see from where F-35 will get info expect from its own radar. E-3 replacement isn't even on paper and even that can't detect J-20/31 from safe distance.

So from defensive standpoint Chinese stealths have noticable advantage over F-35, on other hand they will be in similar problem if they attack Japan for example. Then ground radars and SAM will be big bonus to F-35.


F-22 and F-35 require little to no support from E-3 and E-2 or other aircraft of similar role/capacity. Their own radars, sensors, and integration with the same aircraft type allow for their own self contained capability. This has been echoed by both F-22 and F-35 pilots and strategists.
This has been seen in high end exercises with F-22 and F-35s flying ahead of everyone else. In Syria F-22s were used as forward ISR.

In a hypothetical of a Chinese J-20 or J-31 attempting to penetrate in Japanese airspace (trying to act stupid) will have a harder time than an F-35 going into Chinese airspace. The main reason I can think of this is because of the F-35s ability to connect and communicate with other systems and platforms.


E-3 or E-2 or any other AWACS is past with new weapons. I am talking about big stealthy drone which fly with J-20/31 and provide them multiband radar picture. You can put big a$$ L/S-band antennas in that thing and also X-band antennas. That is what China right now is doing with Divine Eagle. If they succeed they will have noticeable advantage.


So how do you run a L-band antenna on a UAV?
How do you make signal LPI?
How do the make the data link stealthy?
Hiw do you cool it?
Just one of these issues left unattended will either compromise the plane or its kill chain.
Even if the plane is stealthy but it radiates, its a giant tatget.

Re: J-20 goes operational again

Unread postPosted: 01 Aug 2020, 16:55
by milosh
@jessmo112
Just one of these issues left unattended will either compromise the plane or its kill chain.
Even if the plane is stealthy but it radiates, its a giant tatget.


Agree but I didn't said Chinese will be able to pull all right I said they are working on that, and if they are that is noticeable advantage. Btw even if they don't pull everything right it is still way better then using crewed AWACS which easy to track when it doesn't use its radar at all.

Re: J-20 goes operational again

Unread postPosted: 03 Aug 2020, 02:11
by jessmo112
China is moving heavy bombers to the India frontier.
China had better get all of the wizbang Gizmos running quick. Because they will need the Fancy J-20, the invisible drones, and sneaky tac-air tactics.
I wonder whats Chinas plan for fighting, In the west as well as the SCS. The Brahmos will give China fits.
Also In surprised that drones haven't taken over the tacair work. No worries about thin air, or pilots.

Re: J-20 goes operational again

Unread postPosted: 03 Aug 2020, 03:53
by weasel1962
Its only a H-6 detachment to Kashgar airport (not new and they do it routinely). Delhi is actually within unrefuelled range of H-6 bases in Shaodong/Hengyang (~3500km). However, Kashgar (~1000+km) allows strikes with significant reduction in warning times.

India faces 2 theater commands (Western-WTC and Southern-STC). Tibet is in WTC. Southern covers Yunnan and Sichuan provinces. WTC has 9 brigades (5 J7, 1 J8, 1 JH7, 2 J11). STC has 23 brigades (5 J7, 5 J10, 7 J11/Su30, 2 JH7, 4 H6). Each PLAAF air brigade has ~28 aircraft vs 18 per IAF sqn, that’s equivalent of 48 IAF squadrons facing India before reinforcements.

Deployment wise, the Ladakh sector (WTC) has 23 airports within 750nm of Ladakh (flanker radius), 8 of which are within 500nm. Of the 23, only 3 are located at extreme high altitudes (EHEL). These can be regarded as defensive

STC has significantly more airports and also more of these are at extreme high altitudes. However there are no regular PLAAF/PLAN brigades based at EHEL locations. Most of these airbases are within flanker range of Arunachal Pradesh. STC also has broader sector responsibilities with India in the west, SCS in the south and Taiwan in the east, hence the larger number of brigades. The IAF only has 3 sqns of fighters (all Su-30s) based in the east but can also redeploy if required. Nevertheless, this will likely be the most heavily outnumbered sector. Air superiority is key in mountainous regions because of the ability to stage enveloping air/heliborne assaults and basically cut off the logistics.