J-20 goes operational again

Military aircraft - Post cold war aircraft, including for example B-2, Gripen, F-18E/F Super Hornet, Rafale, and Typhoon.
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disconnectedradical

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Unread post25 Jul 2020, 05:42

jessmo112 wrote:The industrial might that can barely build an 80s engine?


And I thought the forums can do better than this kind of rah rah chest pounding posts.
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knowan

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Unread post25 Jul 2020, 12:08

milosh wrote:Germany in WW2 built excellent jet fighter while 100% US jet was worse then propeller, but US industrial might was much bigger then German one.


P-59 was mediocre, but the P-80 was the equal of the Me 262.
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jessmo112

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Unread post25 Jul 2020, 13:30

sprstdlyscottsmn wrote:
jessmo112 wrote:The industrial might that can barely build an 80s engine?

The F119 is an 80s engine. Has anyone built a better supercruise engine? No? Okay then. If they pull off an F119 analog then they are in 2nd place in the global engine war, even if they are 40 years behind the US.


WT* they can barely pull off an F-100; equivalent. They are miles away from an f-119. I mean I guess if you ignore it blowing up after 10 minutes it would count.
The U.S. will soon field advent which is a 6th generation engine. The F-119 and F-135 are 5th gen engines.
Lets see them tey and perfect a f-100 1st.
BTW notice how stovl and super cruise are both absent in design despite everything else being copied.
The reason is because thrust is only 1/2 of the issue. To make a stovl plane you need a RELIABLE engine.
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sprstdlyscottsmn

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Unread post25 Jul 2020, 14:03

jessmo112 wrote:
sprstdlyscottsmn wrote:
jessmo112 wrote:The industrial might that can barely build an 80s engine?

The F119 is an 80s engine. Has anyone built a better supercruise engine? No? Okay then. If they pull off an F119 analog then they are in 2nd place in the global engine war, even if they are 40 years behind the US.


WT* they can barely pull off an F-100; equivalent.

So you MEANT that they can barely pull off a 1970s engine, got it.

FYI, I don't think they are there yet either, just wanted to point out that when comparing engine tech to the US everyone is farther behind than it may seem.
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jessmo112

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Unread post25 Jul 2020, 14:21

Correct
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milosh

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Unread post26 Jul 2020, 10:15

knowan wrote:
milosh wrote:Germany in WW2 built excellent jet fighter while 100% US jet was worse then propeller, but US industrial might was much bigger then German one.


P-59 was mediocre, but the P-80 was the equal of the Me 262.


P-80 isn't 100% US tech. It use British jet engine tech. Also lot of bugs weren't solved with early P-80, P-80C production started in june 1948 and that is P-80 which we all know. P-80 used in 1945 were prototypes (YP-80), today it would be something like Su-57 and Syria.

But I think my point is clear, China can and will make J-20 with mediocre engines, and numbers they are talking about aren't small at all. Serial production will have four lines with one plane per month on each.
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knowan

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Unread post26 Jul 2020, 12:42

milosh wrote:P-80 isn't 100% US tech. It use British jet engine tech. Also lot of bugs weren't solved with early P-80, P-80C production started in june 1948 and that is P-80 which we all know. P-80 used in 1945 were prototypes (YP-80), today it would be something like Su-57 and Syria.


The USA started with British engine tech, but by the P-80 they were developing their own engines; the J31 that powered the P-59 was based on a British engine, but the J33 that powered the P-80 was a significantly larger and more powerful engine.

P-80A were in service in early 1945, but were deployed overseas too late for combat operations.
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Unread post26 Jul 2020, 13:31

milosh wrote:
knowan wrote:
milosh wrote:Germany in WW2 built excellent jet fighter while 100% US jet was worse then propeller, but US industrial might was much bigger then German one.


P-59 was mediocre, but the P-80 was the equal of the Me 262.


P-80 isn't 100% US tech. It use British jet engine tech. Also lot of bugs weren't solved with early P-80, P-80C production started in june 1948 and that is P-80 which we all know. P-80 used in 1945 were prototypes (YP-80), today it would be something like Su-57 and Syria.

But I think my point is clear, China can and will make J-20 with mediocre engines, and numbers they are talking about aren't small at all. Serial production will have four lines with one plane per month on each.


So do you think they will our produce the F-35?
They may have had some regional superiority in numbers of 5th gen aircraft. But that was before they pissed off all of Asia. Now you have Japan, SK, Singapore, Australia, and Britain all in the neighborhood with some version of the F-35. Just the non U.S. users alone will have F-35s in the hundreds. If it wasnt for politics Taiwan and India would have it. Its not just the engine problem thats working against China. Their brand of politics and bullying has come to light. So they must produce enough 5th generation fighters to fight not only the U.S. but Britain and all of Asia.
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Unread post26 Jul 2020, 13:40

Ot Im going to make a thread soon discussing if the U S.
Should prioritize a Asian Nato alliance
And invite Vietnam, India, and others to participate.
Its very hard to talk about planes and China but not the politics.
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Unread post26 Jul 2020, 14:48

jessmo112 wrote:So do you think they will our produce the F-35?


Nope but J-20 will surely be build in noticeable larger numbers then F-22. 60 planes per year even it production last a decade is 600 planes.

J-31 is what they are planing to be their F-35. So if they plan to build ~600 J-20 I expect they will build twice more J-31.

Btw asian NATO is problematic, members don't love each other, Japan and Korea are in trade war and Korea is playing on Chinese card to be less depend from Japan, Taiwan and Japan have senkaku problem.

Smaller economies are quite dependent on Chinese market so joining some anti chinese military alliance would impact economy heavily, that would be big problem for Australia too.

And on top of that is falling US. Economical recesion which can turn in depresion, mini street wars (I can only imagine what will happen if Trump lost and call its dudes to streets in November) so anti China alliance I would say that train was left station years or even decade ago (before 2008 it could happen).
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Unread post26 Jul 2020, 16:58

mixelflick wrote:Hillary Clinton supporters/liberals are the ones who throw/threw temper tantrums when they lost. They're brainwashed in liberal colleges to believe they're entitled to whatever they want, especially without working for it. Go ahead, peruse Youtube for what liberals do on a variety of issues when they don't get their way. There's your definition of "sore loser" and "civil unrest".

Then you can come back here and tell me what candidate's supporters you should worry about..


I just point out what is quite possible to happen, and I used Doni supporters because Doni is one which is talking about election fraud. So on top of what you already have US society can get in even deeper s.
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Unread post26 Jul 2020, 17:54

milosh wrote:
mixelflick wrote:Hillary Clinton supporters/liberals are the ones who throw/threw temper tantrums when they lost. They're brainwashed in liberal colleges to believe they're entitled to whatever they want, especially without working for it. Go ahead, peruse Youtube for what liberals do on a variety of issues when they don't get their way. There's your definition of "sore loser" and "civil unrest".

Then you can come back here and tell me what candidate's supporters you should worry about..


I just point out what is quite possible to happen, and I used Doni supporters because Doni is one which is talking about election fraud. So on top of what you already have US society can get in even deeper s.


Yes. that's very true. In one respect, it doesnt' matter who's causing it - it's still civil unrest. But it's telling liberals are always the ones partaking. Personally, I think a 2nd civil war is coming..
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Unread post26 Jul 2020, 18:31

milosh wrote:
jessmo112 wrote:So do you think they will our produce the F-35?


Nope but J-20 will surely be build in noticeable larger numbers then F-22. 60 planes per year even it production last a decade is 600 planes.

J-31 is what they are planing to be their F-35. So if they plan to build ~600 J-20 I expect they will build twice more J-31.

Btw asian NATO is problematic, members don't love each other, Japan and Korea are in trade war and Korea is playing on Chinese card to be less depend from Japan, Taiwan and Japan have senkaku problem.

Smaller economies are quite dependent on Chinese market so joining some anti chinese military alliance would impact economy heavily, that would be big problem for Australia too.

And on top of that is falling US. Economical recesion which can turn in depresion, mini street wars (I can only imagine what will happen if Trump lost and call its dudes to streets in November) so anti China alliance I would say that train was left station years or even decade ago (before 2008 it could happen).


But your talking as if the J-20 is equal to the F-22.
It certainly is not. And the J-31 is worse.
Your talking about F-35 numbers close to 3000 or more.
The USAF will buy 1200+ alone. The Chinese need a 2:1 kill ratio over just the USAF just to beat them.
Im telling you in a shooting war Chinas gonna get pounded
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Unread post26 Jul 2020, 23:46

milosh wrote:
jessmo112 wrote:So do you think they will our produce the F-35?


Nope but J-20 will surely be build in noticeable larger numbers then F-22. 60 planes per year even it production last a decade is 600 planes.

J-31 is what they are planing to be their F-35. So if they plan to build ~600 J-20 I expect they will build twice more J-31.

Btw asian NATO is problematic, members don't love each other, Japan and Korea are in trade war and Korea is playing on Chinese card to be less depend from Japan, Taiwan and Japan have senkaku problem.

Smaller economies are quite dependent on Chinese market so joining some anti chinese military alliance would impact economy heavily, that would be big problem for Australia too.

And on top of that is falling US. Economical recesion which can turn in depresion, mini street wars (I can only imagine what will happen if Trump lost and call its dudes to streets in November) so anti China alliance I would say that train was left station years or even decade ago (before 2008 it could happen).

China hasn't even built 600 Flankers or J-10s. It's highly doubtful they're planning on 600 J-20s. I'd be surprised if they even build 600 J-31s.
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Unread post26 Jul 2020, 23:48

jessmo112 wrote:



But your talking as if the J-20 is equal to the F-22.
It certainly is not. And the J-31 is worse.
Your talking about F-35 numbers close to 3000 or more.
The USAF will buy 1200+ alone. The Chinese need a 2:1 kill ratio over just the USAF just to beat them.
Im telling you in a shooting war Chinas gonna get pounded

The USAF is buying 1,763 F-35s (and that number will likely increase in the out years.)
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