First serial produced Mig-35's delivered

Military aircraft - Post cold war aircraft, including for example B-2, Gripen, F-18E/F Super Hornet, Rafale, and Typhoon.
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element1loop

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Unread post08 Nov 2019, 02:30

vladimir wrote:... It almost always works in DCS. ...


:doh: :roll: :mrgreen:
Accel + Alt + VLO + DAS + MDF + Radial Distance = LIFE . . . Always choose Stealth
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wrightwing

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Unread post08 Nov 2019, 02:33

vladimir wrote:




Su-30MKI didn't take part in those border skirmish. You're extremely arrogant if you believe that F-16C Block 52 is superior to Su-30MKI in anything, I mean the latter one has a way more powerful and technologically more advanced PESA radar than F-16's AN/APG-(V)9, R-77 'fire and forget' missiles, better range...


The Su-30s have a more powerful radar, but that doesn't mean that they have a first look advantage over an F-16. The Su-30 In a combat configuration probably has a RCS of >20m^2. The F-16 is likely closer to 3m^2. When quoting radar ranges, it's helpful to know not only what they're talking about, but what you're talking about.


You're also so arrogant to believe that F-16 and other US-made aircraft are the only aircraft in the world that carry missiles like AMRAAM... well, MiG-29UGTs and MiG-29Ks have Zhuk-ME radars (range 120km, better than AN/APG-(V)9 ) and carry R-77 missiles with better range than AMRAAM. Indian Air Force has ordered hundreds if not thousands of R-77 missiles.


The R-77 has a significantly shorter range than the AIM-120, as was demonstrated quite dramatically. Secondly, the IAF doesn't have thousands of them in inventory. Even the RuAF doesn't have extensive stockpiles, as the weapon seen most often is an R-27 variant.

Both Su-30MKI & MiG-29UPSs would be able to detect F-16 Block 52 before they are detected themselves, they would also be able to fire R-77 missiles before F-16 Block 52 fires AMRAAM back at them.

This is false. The RCS disadvantage outweighs the radar capabilities. There won't be any significant differences in detection range as a result. The Pakistani F-16s demonstrated a first shoot capability, while remaining out of range.

MiG-29UGP can also carry 2x R-27ER/ET long-range missile, 4x R-77 medium-range missiles and 2x R-73 short-range missiles and first launch R-27ER/ET at Pakitani F-16 so F-16 has to take defensive posture which gives MiG significant tactical advantage, then really destroy it by launching a few R-77. It almost always works in DCS. :)
Stick to DVD.

From the text above you can read that MiG-35 will be able to carry R-37 with 300km range, so be sure that AESA radar of MiG-35 will have pretty good range, a way better than US, Pakistani or Polish F-16C/D Block 52.
F-16E/F Block 60 with APG-80 AESA radar and Block 70/72 with APG-83 radar are comparable to MiG-35, but as far as I know only the UAE flies it, Slovakia and Taiwan have ordered it.

Let us know when even the RuAF has a significant stockpile of R-37s, much less when they're being exported in quantity. Right Now, you're not likely to see any except on Mig-31s.
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knowan

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Unread post08 Nov 2019, 05:11

vladimir wrote:Su-30MKI didn't take part in those border skirmish.


https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/outgunn ... es-2044172
https://eurasiantimes.com/su-30-mki-vs- ... -missiles/
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 277222.cms


vladimir wrote:and carry R-77 missiles with better range than AMRAAM

and first launch R-27ER/ET


Image
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vladimir wrote:It almost always works in DCS. :)


lol
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XanderCrews

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Unread post08 Nov 2019, 06:12

Would be really scary if the US didn't have it hands on MiGs before the wall fell, and then got to play fight them for years with the Germans after the wall fell.

Real scary stuff.
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mixelflick

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Unread post08 Nov 2019, 16:32

With respect to "you're extremely arrogant if you think F-16 hold any advantages over the Flanker..."

I merely stated the FACTS of when these two engaged during the latest border skirmish. PAK F-16's fired AMRAAM's, IN SU-30MKI's evaded them (or so we're told). If the MKI has such a huge radar/weapons advantage, why didn't they detect/fire on PAK F-16's first? Where were the spent R-27/77 rounds? The downed F-16? It's pilot?? Were the SU-30's just highlighting their own defensive maneuvers for jollies?

You appear to have a bad case of F-16 Derangement Syndrome. Or perhaps MKI Derangement Syndrome. Nobody here ascribes "unbeatable" status to any aircraft, not even the F-22. It is what it is, and it wasn't a good showing for the MKI. Perhaps they'll have better luck next time. You know, with all the upgrades and such...
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Unread post08 Nov 2019, 18:24

XanderCrews wrote:Would be really scary if the US didn't have it hands on MiGs before the wall fell, and then got to play fight them for years with the Germans after the wall fell.

Real scary stuff.


Nothing special would changed.

Iraq's MiG-29 didn't had R-73 and our MiG-29 weren't in working condition. Also both countries had lot less MiG-29 then US had F-15.
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boilermaker

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Unread post09 Nov 2019, 05:18

So I hear a J20 crashed and production is suspended. Anyone can confirm this? The SU57 was supposed to be canceled in 2018 but it seems like they will order some.

I think the issue with the Chinese is that copying engines is not like copying airframes. If you do not know what you are doing in terms of conceiving an engine, you are really working in the dark. The result is that you might end up spending more money and effort wasting time on a bad design before going back to square one on the drawing board, than if you started a normal incremental development.
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mixelflick

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Unread post09 Nov 2019, 15:13

boilermaker wrote:So I hear a J20 crashed and production is suspended. Anyone can confirm this? The SU57 was supposed to be canceled in 2018 but it seems like they will order some.

I think the issue with the Chinese is that copying engines is not like copying airframes. If you do not know what you are doing in terms of conceiving an engine, you are really working in the dark. The result is that you might end up spending more money and effort wasting time on a bad design before going back to square one on the drawing board, than if you started a normal incremental development.


No credible evidence of a J-20 crash that I can see. Besides, a crash would no more suspend/cancel the program than when the F-22/F-35 first crashes occurred.
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Unread post10 Nov 2019, 16:53

India signs USD700 million deal with Russia for 1,000 additional air-to-air missiles

The Indian Air Force (IAF) has signed deals with Russia worth about USD700 million for an additional 1,000 air-to-air missiles (AAMs) to arm its fleets of MiG and Sukhoi combat aircraft.
Military sources in Moscow and New Delhi told Jane’s on 30 July that the order for the AAMs, which was placed in early July, is for about 300 R-27 (AA-10 ‘Alamo’) infrared-guided (IR) or semi-active radar-guided, medium-to-long-range missiles; 300 R-73E (AA-11 ‘Archer’) IR-guided, short-range missiles; and 400 R-77 (AA-12 ‘Adder’) active radar-guided, medium-range missiles.

Source: https://www.janes.com/article/90192/ind ... r-missiles


Are the Indians so 'unhappy' with their Russian-built R-77s and other Russian-built 'air-to-air' missiles that they want 1000 more? :D And they are ready to pay $700.000 for each.
Of course, these are not earliest versions of R-73, R-77 and R-27, but the versions with extended ranges and better guidance.

R-73 range is increased from 30km to 40km.
R-77 from 80km to 110km.

If you compare an early version of R-77 with a later version of AMRAAM, of course AMRAAM is a better missile.

Read this:
https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/indian- ... uk-1204336

Indian Air Force Sukhois Dominate UK Fighter Jets in Combat Exercises

Image

NEW DELHI: In some of the most intense international air combat exercises ever featuring the Indian Air Force, IAF pilots flying Sukhoi Su-30 MKI fighters had a resounding 12-0 scoreline in their favour against Royal Air Force Typhoon jets in Within Visual Range (WVR) dogfighting operations.


I find this part very funny:
Notably, in the exercise where a lone Su-30 was engaged by two Typhoons, the IAF jet emerged the victor 'shooting' down both 'enemy' jets.

:D

Also, read this:
https://militarywatchmagazine.com/artic ... -air-force

K-77 will be an awesome missile, no doubt. AESA radar and ramjet engine will make R-77 really lethal not just from medium ranges, but also from long ranges.

And the Indians are pretty much completely free to buy anything they want from the West, Israel... they have bought dont-know-how-many Apaches & Chinooks and 6 Scorpene-class submarines, for example. No political pressures, no restrictions for them. So over the last 15 years they've chosen to buy 272 Su-30MKIs (want 12 more more), 69 MIG-29UPGs (want 21 more), 45 MiG-29Ks (want probably 45 more for their 2nd aircraft carrier) and only 36 Rafales.

So in total they've so far ordered 464 Russian fighter jets and only 36 Western (French) fighter jets.

464 vs 36 'score' is telling us something.

My country is also ordering R-77s, like the Indians, for upgraded MiG-29s (along with unknown number of Pantsir-S2s, 4 MiG-35Ms and training for S-400 - no one knows what does training of our air defense crews mean exactly), but I think it would be smarter for us to wait a little bit more till the end of the development of AESA radar for MiG-35 and K-77 and then buy it. We have territorials disputes with some of our neighbors and it is better that we are better armed than them, it is good if we have decent Air Force, Air Defense Forces and 285km range ballistic missiles (Sumadija MLRS).

Also, read this:
http://mil.today/2019/Science35/
Vega Group Presented Air-Based Mini Radar

At the MAKS-2019 airshow, designers of Vega presented the synthetic aperture radar RSA 0.1. The company’s representatives told Mil.Press Today that the distinctive features of the radar were its weight/dimensions characteristics: the compact transceiver weighs only 9.6 kg, and the antenna tips the scale at 1.2 kg.
Mikhail Kaplin, an engineer at Vega assures that the radar’s small size do not affect the scanning accuracy.
"Its resolution is 0.1 meter. That means if the distance between two objects is more than 10 cm, we can classify them as different assets even from 20 kilometers", explained the engineer.
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disconnectedradical

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Unread post10 Nov 2019, 19:40

wrightwing wrote:The Su-30s have a more powerful radar, but that doesn't mean that they have a first look advantage over an F-16. The Su-30 In a combat configuration probably has a RCS of >20m^2. The F-16 is likely closer to 3m^2. When quoting radar ranges, it's helpful to know not only what they're talking about, but what you're talking about.


Physical size shouldn't be used to determine RCS. Are you sure F-16 has 3m^2 RCS with weapons? I don't know why you're just assuming an F-16 with combat load would automatically have lower RCS.
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Unread post11 Nov 2019, 02:54

LOL :lmao:
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Unread post11 Nov 2019, 03:50

@ Vlad

1. How many Russian built platforms use western (United States or even French) ordnance and vice versa? I dont remember seeing Polish Mig-29s flying with AIM-7s or Sidewinders. India buying Russian weapons for their Russian aircraft means nothing.

2. It is hard to find an article in mainstream news outlet that isnt nationalistic chest thumping when one nations fighter aircraft flies with/against another.
I remember when Indian news was feeling high and mighty when Indian Air Force Su-30s said they "bested" US F-15s flown by USAF pilots (people still point to that event). Turns out that the USAF pilots weren't high timers and that the ROEs were heavily restricted against the F-15s and that the capabilities of the F-15 were severly handicaped (couldnt engage BVR and couldnt use JHMCs for WVR). Indian Air Force Su-30s went to Alaska against more veteran pilots where F-15s werent handicaped; complete opposite of results.
Then there was the German Typhoons against F-22s in Alaska's Northern Edge exercise... oh boy. The chest thumping and ignorant poop throwing that came out of that.
Ask anyone here about press released results of dogfights in training and exercises and they will tell you the released results (though fun to talk and debate about) are useless without indepth context. Example was that Typhoon vs Raptor event mentioned earlier. Typhoon fans were all over it claiming that the Typhoon can outmanuever the Raptor. What most media outlets and individuals fail to mention was that the Typhoons were flying slick and light.

3. Indian military procurement is a giant headache. Somehow they botched the Rafale and beat their small arms development to an unnoticeable pulpy mess... INSAS fiasco. India is going to the Flanker because its what they know and as mentioned earlier, they F-ed up their deal for the Rafale. This doesnt automatically mean Su-30 is better and the Rafale isn't.

4. Most media outlets from Russia or using Russian sources are often over claimed. Dont be surprised when others here look at sources with caution or distrust.

5. You're a guest here at others discretion.
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Unread post11 Nov 2019, 07:05

Vlad buddy, You need to pace yourself, if you promote this stuff too much you won't be able to dismiss the inevitable combat losses as "downgraded models" like we have been hearing the last 50 years.

You're gonna give yourself a heart attack. This job isn't worth it. You get paid either way to post propaganda. And its more believable when you tone it down.

Im sure these aircraft will be just as amazing as the MiGs and Sukhois the west has been using to inflate their kill stats the last few decades as any others, no better no worse.

me personally I'm just over Russian Gear, I've been hearing the hype for 30 years, and they just get annihilated time and again. And then they roll out some new super fighter, thats a rehash of the ones that have been punching bags the whole time. I just can't get excited anymore.
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Unread post11 Nov 2019, 07:27

The original R-77/RVV-AE was quite awful, the Indians were NOT happy with them at all. Russian Air Force didn't even bother with it until the improved R-77-1/RVV-SD came out which was only recently.
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Unread post11 Nov 2019, 11:54

Yes R-77 India have isn't good as modern BVR missiles and have problems but when Indians bought them they were lot better then what Pakistan had and as good as what Chinese had plus India got Su-30 with phased radar which was nice boost to multi target capability.

Today R-77 are absolute, and India plan to replace them with couple of noticeable better missiles (R-77-1, Astra, Derby-ER) which in combination with PESA radar will again allow them to have advantage over Pakistan.

And they will have Meteors but those are primary to counter Chinese.
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