Russian Air Force 3rd Rate Post 2030???

Military aircraft - Post cold war aircraft, including for example B-2, Gripen, F-18E/F Super Hornet, Rafale, and Typhoon.
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mixelflick

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Unread post09 Aug 2018, 15:44

element1loop wrote:
Corsair1963 wrote:That said, we are getting off the topic..... :?


I had a read up last night on RuAF, they have been really struggling for resorces for a couple of years, and the projected defense budget isn't set to grow, it is set to slowly shrink as a percent of GDP.

They have upgraded and remanufactured a lot of jets, and rotors, but precision weapon quality and quantity (plus data from sensors) remains their enduring weakness.

Given they're apparently stuck with a 4th-gen force for a long time to come (little or no money for one thing), it's predictable that their new weapons drive must emphasise standoff plus try to build the LO into those, instead.

So it seems the issue is not platforms (which won't improve much), but the weapons, sensors and C4i which they can develop and field in the interim as they develop new platform options. As long as the price for hydrocarbon energy remains low-ish, the Ru defense budget and funded programs are going to languish or dissipate.


The real issue is this: They don't have any better options than designing LO cruise missiles, etc because.... they can't design stealth aircraft. While that still affords them some strike capability, it won't be happening first day of war with a peer (or greater than peer) adversary. The TU-160 upgrade is a good example of this. It's not a LO design, but they're pumping up the new cruise missile it carries. They're supposedly working on a stealth bomber (PAK-DA), but that's an even bigger pipe dream than the SU-57.

I'd love to see the design though. Would likely be their first flying wing..
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XanderCrews

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Unread post09 Aug 2018, 21:50

Reminder: There are are very few, if any, western formations that can withstand an assault by 200 tanks.



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icemaverick wrote:
If you can't achieve any sort of air dominance, why are you spending money and resources on armor?


Because contrary to Russia’s posturing they know very well that they can’t compete with the West in a conventional war. They simply don’t have the economic/industrial might. They do however need tanks in order to maintain control over regions like Chechnya and Dagestan. They also need the tools to defeat neighbors such as Ukraine, Georgia etc. These are Russia’s more pressing conventional concerns. They have nukes in order to deter against any serious existential threat from the West. Russia’s main strategic goal at this time is to preserve its shrinking sphere of influence. Towards this end, it’s unlikely they will pursue direct military confrontation with the West but they may get into conventional wars against former Soviet republics or fight to prop up allies like Assad.



And this is basically what it comes down to. Russia isn't trying to be the toughest guy in the entire city, just the toughest guy on their block.


There are a lot of Fanbois, that are confusing the basic facts posted above by IceMaverick. I hate to "call out" a banned member but that was the issue with Cobra, he was simultaneously trying to hold that the Su57 was a counter to the F-22, (which is direct competition with the US) when Russia is not interested in "beating" the US. They're interested in keeping the US Neutral while they pursue and support regional Russian influence. The Su-57 can't "beat" the F-22 because its simply not designed to based on their modest goals. So when I say something like "well the Su-57 is no F-22" Fanbois start in using the F-22 as a yardstick, and then try and prove how the Su-57 is built the same way for the same purpose done the same way-- its not and never will be. They fall into a trap of their own perspective. Its like comparing Al Queda to the US Army, and saying Al Queda will never work since its not run or operating like the US Army. Thats the "trap" Al Queda isn't interested in being a massive and uniformed army. They prefer 19 guys armed with box cutters and a suicidal hijacked air force. So some idiot comparing Al Queda to the US Army because they both practice marksmanship is really missing the bigger picture.

Thats the Paradox Fanbois want to get on the internet and chest thump and "beat" America. Not even Russia is really interested in "beating" America. Beating their neighbors? certainly.



Think of this all as a high level bank heist. If you (Russia) are shooting at the police (USA) something has gone very wrong. You just want to get your cash, and have no one be the wiser except the guard you beat up to get what you needed. Repeat until rich. There is no need to play open Rambo in the streets. Russians have been brilliant at finding subtle "gray zones" to use to their advantage. Like those nice "not Russian" chaps who just happened to spring up all over the Ukraine a few years back in full combat garb.


And BTW Only fanbois will tell you that "quantity has a quality all it's own" when it comes to spamming tanks but not to MONEY. Lol watch them suddenly change their entire argument on a dime with that one
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talkitron

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Unread post10 Aug 2018, 04:08

Russia’s military, particularly its ground forces, are entirely configured to fight NATO. The best units are stationed in the Western Military District and are heavy on tanks, air defenses and artillery. This is not a structure needed for fighting truly third tier countries like Georgia and Ukraine. Russian exercises also portray NATO as the simulated enemy.

The US Army realizes it has fallen behind in artillery, which is why long range precision fires is the number one modernization priority for the Army. Of course, no European NATO country seems to be making similar investments. Well, Poland cares but has a lower GDP than some other countries.

The lack of credible opposition from European NATO countries is why Russia could win in a short war to seize territory from bordering countries. The Poles would fight but the USAF is the main worry Russia would have. It would be interesting.
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element1loop

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Unread post10 Aug 2018, 10:10

talkitron wrote:
element1loop wrote:Consider, if you have a VLO aircraft, plus a VLO internal JSM, and known precision location of fixed targets, and the F-35A can rapidly recon and update the targeting minutes prior to a strike, and missiles can be retargeted in flight, plus there are F-35As escorting E-7As, to provide air-sea gap coverage in a degraded axis of approach coverage, will even a substantial incremental degrading of JORN, aiming to degrade F-35A battle SA at longer range, reduce the attack's effectiveness much? Or reduce their tempo?


Glad to hear Australia is thinking even more carefully about its defense than I thought. I haven’t heard about any Western country other than Australia, Japan (missile defense) and the US investing huge resources in non-sexy infrastructure like long-range radar.

One minor point: I am of the opinion that adversaries will buy longer range BVR AAMs and shoot down non-stealthy. platforms like the E-7A. But maybe not everyone agrees and I do like the plan of striking first while the enemy aircraft are parked on the ground.



Just a little update on this earlier (somewhat OT) discussion, from three pages back.

The bi-annual exercise 'Pitch Black' has been under way all week in Northern Australia, and a RAAF spokesman was on Channel 10 news tonight and just said RAAF [Hornets] plus Growlers, achieved a kill ratio of 78:3, with no specifics on what the aggressor mix was. Potentally a mix of Su30MKI, Rafale, F-16 and F15, etc.

Anyway, apparently the Hornets are OK at A2A.
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madrat

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Unread post10 Aug 2018, 12:52

'simulated threats'
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element1loop

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Unread post10 Aug 2018, 13:37

Simulated hits.
Accel + Alt + VLO + DAS + MDF + Radial-Dist = LIFE
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