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Re: F-15X: USAF Seems Interested

Unread postPosted: 06 Oct 2020, 03:02
by Corsair1963
Honestly, not surprising the 142nd went with the F-15EX for a number of reasons....(both on merit and political)

Re: F-15X: USAF Seems Interested

Unread postPosted: 06 Oct 2020, 12:36
by mixelflick
Corsair1963 wrote:
"aaam"
To be fair, when those decisions were made the F-15EX did not exist as an option. Let's see what happens now.


"marauder2048"
The 125th Fighter Wing decision was made in August of 2020.



Yes, Florida has been fighting hard for sometime to acquire the F-35A to replace its F-15C's and never wanted the F-15EX.

Further, my guess is California (194 FS) and Louisiana (122nd) will get the F-35A. While, Massachusetts (131st) will get the F-15EX. This would split the types between each coast. Of course I am just speculating....

Also, as long as I am "speculating" I believe the USAF will replace their F-15C's at Lakenheath (UK) and Kadena (Okinawa Japan) with the F-35A too!

If, the F-15EX survives over the next couple of defense budgets. I would assume they would replace some of the A-10 and/or F-16 Squadrons.


Good guess. I wouldn't mind the F-15EX being assigned to MA, that's for sure. They'll soon be more F-35's flying than you can shake a stick at. The EX will be by comparison, rare. Does anyone know the USAF timetable for a decision??

Re: F-15X: USAF Seems Interested

Unread postPosted: 07 Oct 2020, 07:01
by Corsair1963
mixelflick wrote:
Corsair1963 wrote:
"aaam"
To be fair, when those decisions were made the F-15EX did not exist as an option. Let's see what happens now.


"marauder2048"
The 125th Fighter Wing decision was made in August of 2020.



Yes, Florida has been fighting hard for sometime to acquire the F-35A to replace its F-15C's and never wanted the F-15EX.

Further, my guess is California (194 FS) and Louisiana (122nd) will get the F-35A. While, Massachusetts (131st) will get the F-15EX. This would split the types between each coast. Of course I am just speculating....

Also, as long as I am "speculating" I believe the USAF will replace their F-15C's at Lakenheath (UK) and Kadena (Okinawa Japan) with the F-35A too!

If, the F-15EX survives over the next couple of defense budgets. I would assume they would replace some of the A-10 and/or F-16 Squadrons.


Good guess. I wouldn't mind the F-15EX being assigned to MA, that's for sure. They'll soon be more F-35's flying than you can shake a stick at. The EX will be by comparison, rare. Does anyone know the USAF timetable for a decision??


No, yet we usually hear something every few months....

Re: F-15X: USAF Seems Interested

Unread postPosted: 17 Oct 2020, 12:38
by charlielima223
If the F-15EX is supposed to replace remaining F-15Cs and F-15Es, this new weapons certification could give it a momentary edge over the F-35. From my understanding the F-15EX are supposed to carry pretty much anything the current F-15E can now.

https://www.military.com/daily-news/202 ... tions.html

https://www.airforcemag.com/f-15es-can- ... ker-bombs/

Re: F-15X: USAF Seems Interested

Unread postPosted: 17 Oct 2020, 20:20
by marauder2048
charlielima223 wrote:If the F-15EX is supposed to replace remaining F-15Cs and F-15Es, this new weapons certification could give it a momentary edge over the F-35. From my understanding the F-15EX are supposed to carry pretty much anything the current F-15E can now.

https://www.military.com/daily-news/202 ... tions.html

https://www.airforcemag.com/f-15es-can- ... ker-bombs/


The F-15EX can't get close enough to high-end threats to deploy SDB II.
For the F-15, SDB II is for more of a post-SEAD target rich/IADS poor environment scenario like GW1.

Re: F-15X: USAF Seems Interested

Unread postPosted: 19 Oct 2020, 12:41
by mixelflick
charlielima223 wrote:If the F-15EX is supposed to replace remaining F-15Cs and F-15Es, this new weapons certification could give it a momentary edge over the F-35. From my understanding the F-15EX are supposed to carry pretty much anything the current F-15E can now.

https://www.military.com/daily-news/202 ... tions.html

https://www.airforcemag.com/f-15es-can- ... ker-bombs/


The more I learn about the EX, the more it looks like an F-15E replacement. The twin seats, the CFT's, the extra powerful motors.... all point to a better Strike Eagle replacement, vs. F-15C. It will be real interesting to see how it all shakes out..

Re: F-15X: USAF Seems Interested

Unread postPosted: 19 Oct 2020, 13:44
by madrat
Would it make more sense to push F-15EX to replace F-15E and when F-15C retires put older E's in to replace them? The A2A loads would be less stress on the older E airframes. The F-35A should do a better A2A role than any F-15 version for the frontlines. F-15EX wouldn't even play a frontline role in A2G against a near peer but they would do well for CONUS protection until the early F-35A can be relegated to the role. F-15EX would provide plenty of coverage to patch holes in the lines and could swing role to drop bombs in lower threat environments. I'd realistically rather have them burn hours on F-35A for most roles once the numbers get substantial because it is the standard airframe we need to build support for any future conflict.

Re: F-15X: USAF Seems Interested

Unread postPosted: 19 Oct 2020, 18:22
by marauder2048
madrat wrote:Would it make more sense to push F-15EX to replace F-15E and when F-15C retires put older E's in to replace them? The A2A loads would be less stress on the older E airframes. The F-35A should do a better A2A role than any F-15 version for the frontlines. F-15EX wouldn't even play a frontline role in A2G against a near peer but they would do well for CONUS protection until the early F-35A can be relegated to the role. F-15EX would provide plenty of coverage to patch holes in the lines and could swing role to drop bombs in lower threat environments. I'd realistically rather have them burn hours on F-35A for most roles once the numbers get substantial because it is the standard airframe we need to build support for any future conflict.


I'd probably just "E-ify" the F-35C: eliminate wing-fold and extend wing-tanks, drop carrier specific strengthening,
and add the AETP engine. Worst case, AETP and stealthy CFTs for the F-35A.

After all, the F-15E is the "interim" F-111 replacement.

If only the Navy hadn't lied to Dick Cheney about the A-12...the Air Force's own internal analysis
on the program concluded that the Navy's cost/schedule goals were going to slip but they didn't dime
the Navy out on it.

Re: F-15X: USAF Seems Interested

Unread postPosted: 19 Oct 2020, 22:22
by charlielima223
marauder2048 wrote:
The F-15EX can't get close enough to high-end threats to deploy SDB II.
For the F-15, SDB II is for more of a post-SEAD target rich/IADS poor environment scenario like GW1.


No real debate here about high-end threats. Having a heavy bomb truck like the F-15EX could lessen the work load on the F-35A. Last I checked the SDB-2 wont be clear and certified on the F-35 until midway into the block 4 upgrade path.

Image

As stated earlier if the F-15EX is supposed to carry everything current F-15Es can, the ability to strike multiple moving targets with SDB-2 gives it more capability than the prior. With F-35s making larger holes in IADs and sticking around "quarter backing" other assets, this would mean F-15EX with 2 racks SDB-2s could be a valuable asset.

Re: F-15X: USAF Seems Interested

Unread postPosted: 19 Oct 2020, 22:31
by charlielima223
madrat wrote:Would it make more sense to push F-15EX to replace F-15E and when F-15C retires put older E's in to replace them? The A2A loads would be less stress on the older E airframes. The F-35A should do a better A2A role than any F-15 version for the frontlines. F-15EX wouldn't even play a frontline role in A2G against a near peer but they would do well for CONUS protection until the early F-35A can be relegated to the role. F-15EX would provide plenty of coverage to patch holes in the lines and could swing role to drop bombs in lower threat environments. I'd realistically rather have them burn hours on F-35A for most roles once the numbers get substantial because it is the standard airframe we need to build support for any future conflict.


Why use the F-15EX on CONUS duties? Wouldnt ANG F-16s be more than enough for that now that they're getting newer AESA radars?

https://theaviationist.com/2020/10/16/t ... nal-guard/
Northrop Grumman announced that its AN/APG-83 SABR (Scalable Agile Beam Radar) Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) radar has reached the Full Operational Capability (FOC) on the U.S. Air Force Air National Guard F-16s. The fielding of the new radar began in January 2020, following a U.S. Northern Command Joint Emergent Operational Need (JEON) for homeland defense.

The JEON resulted in a first contract in 2017 for 72 SABR radars and another one this year for 15 Engineering, Manufacturing and Development (EMD) and 90 production radars. Up to 372 radars could be procured by 2027 if all options are exercised. Currently the District of Columbia ANG (Joint Base Andrews), South Carolina ANG(McEntire JNGB) and another unspecified base completed the radar upgrade, while South Dakota ANG (Joe Foss Field, Sioux Falls) started the upgrade in September.


It obviously wont be as good against high end threats like the F-35 because the lack of stealth but the F-15EX isnt your daddy's Mudhen or Eagle either.

Re: F-15X: USAF Seems Interested

Unread postPosted: 20 Oct 2020, 03:45
by marauder2048
charlielima223 wrote:
No real debate here about high-end threats. Having a heavy bomb truck like the F-15EX could lessen the work load on the F-35A. Last I checked the SDB-2 wont be clear and certified on the F-35 until midway into the block 4 upgrade path.


Except that SDB II IOC on the F-15E is now so many years overdue that F-35 SDB II integration could
come in very short order.

charlielima223 wrote:As stated earlier if the F-15EX is supposed to carry everything current F-15Es can, the ability to strike multiple moving targets with SDB-2 gives it more capability than the prior. With F-35s making larger holes in IADs and sticking around "quarter backing" other assets, this would mean F-15EX with 2 racks SDB-2s could be a valuable asset.


AFAIK, SDB II isn't intended for supersonic delivery so I'm not sure the F-15EX can dash and lob.

The big point of SDB II is that it can do off-axis delivery against moving targets in all weather i.e. SAR/GMTI modes
tend to be squinted (or side looking) so once you've located the armored column you can quickly prosecute the
targets without repositioning for the attack.

Re: F-15X: USAF Seems Interested

Unread postPosted: 20 Oct 2020, 04:19
by Corsair1963
charlielima223 wrote:
Why use the F-15EX on CONUS duties? Wouldnt ANG F-16s be more than enough for that now that they're getting newer AESA radars?

https://theaviationist.com/2020/10/16/t ... nal-guard/
Northrop Grumman announced that its AN/APG-83 SABR (Scalable Agile Beam Radar) Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) radar has reached the Full Operational Capability (FOC) on the U.S. Air Force Air National Guard F-16s. The fielding of the new radar began in January 2020, following a U.S. Northern Command Joint Emergent Operational Need (JEON) for homeland defense.

The JEON resulted in a first contract in 2017 for 72 SABR radars and another one this year for 15 Engineering, Manufacturing and Development (EMD) and 90 production radars. Up to 372 radars could be procured by 2027 if all options are exercised. Currently the District of Columbia ANG (Joint Base Andrews), South Carolina ANG(McEntire JNGB) and another unspecified base completed the radar upgrade, while South Dakota ANG (Joe Foss Field, Sioux Falls) started the upgrade in September.


Of course it would but acquiring the F-15EX had little to do with merit and everything to do with giving Saint Louis (i.e. Boeing) work......

:|

Re: F-15X: USAF Seems Interested

Unread postPosted: 21 Oct 2020, 00:04
by marauder2048
Corsair1963 wrote:Of course it would but acquiring the F-15EX had little to do with merit and everything to do with giving Saint Louis (i.e. Boeing) work......

:|


The irony is that Boeing, by virtue of QF-16 and other F-16 avionics upgrade programs, does regularly bid on
F-16 upgrade competitions.

Re: F-15X: USAF Seems Interested

Unread postPosted: 21 Oct 2020, 13:12
by madrat
charlielima223 wrote:
Why use the F-15EX on CONUS duties? Wouldnt ANG F-16s be more than enough for that now that they're getting newer AESA radars?


F-15EX replace F-15C and E short term, but when F-35A and B-21 get adequate numbers, then what. At that point CONUS duties make sense.

Re: F-15X: USAF Seems Interested

Unread postPosted: 21 Oct 2020, 21:26
by milosh
charlielima223 wrote:
Why use the F-15EX on CONUS duties? Wouldnt ANG F-16s be more than enough for that now that they're getting newer AESA radars?


Becase AESA radar for ANG F-16 doesn't have serious power. APG-83 was design as upgrade for F-16 which don't have AESA capable cooling like F-16 block 60 have. And cooling define radar power.

On other hand F-15 already have more powerful radars which demand better cooling then F-16 older blocks, and F-15EX as it look like will have AESA design cooling.

Russia is fielding LO and VLO cruise missiles. So if you want useful protection from such weapons you will need as powerful as possible radar.

Russia even though have SAMs which have decited radars to deal with low flying missiles and have mass production of cheap to get and maintain multirole Flankers still operate decent fleet of MiG-31 (they have more upgraded MiG-31 then Su-35). Reason is cruise missile interception. MiG-31 exercises are almost always around that.