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Re: F-15X: USAF Seems Interested

Unread postPosted: 18 Mar 2020, 04:46
by Corsair1963
Boeing is seeking $60 billion in U.S. government loan guarantees and other assistance, as it continues to struggle amid the 737 Max crisis and COVID-19 pandemic impacts.

Without providing details of a bailout package, President Donald Trump said, "Boeing got hit hard in many different ways......we'll be helping Boeing."



https://www.rttnews.com/story.aspx?Id=3078696

Re: F-15X: USAF Seems Interested

Unread postPosted: 18 Mar 2020, 11:04
by madrat
weasel1962 wrote:Not sure what not optimized means. What is the EX lacking from other F-15 models?


The CFT is optimized for A2G but the stated purpose is A2A. Contradictory statements.

Re: F-15X: USAF Seems Interested

Unread postPosted: 18 Mar 2020, 13:53
by sferrin
Corsair1963 wrote:Honestly, with the heavy hit to the US Economy because of the coronavirus. This debate maybe over sooner than some think....As they just won't have the luxury of buying the F-15EX.


This hit is temporary. By the end of the year the Dow will be back to pre-virus levels.

Re: F-15X: USAF Seems Interested

Unread postPosted: 19 Mar 2020, 00:47
by Corsair1963
sferrin wrote:
Corsair1963 wrote:Honestly, with the heavy hit to the US Economy because of the coronavirus. This debate maybe over sooner than some think....As they just won't have the luxury of buying the F-15EX.


This hit is temporary. By the end of the year the Dow will be back to pre-virus levels.



You must be kidding??? US Government is talking about funding a stimulus package of nearly a "Trillion Dollars" and this could be just the beginning. Plus, their already have deficit of another TRILLION!


So, anybody that thinks the coronavirus won't have much impact on Defense Spending. May want to re-think that position.... :wink:

Re: F-15X: USAF Seems Interested

Unread postPosted: 19 Mar 2020, 00:58
by southernphantom
Corsair1963 wrote:
sferrin wrote:
Corsair1963 wrote:Honestly, with the heavy hit to the US Economy because of the coronavirus. This debate maybe over sooner than some think....As they just won't have the luxury of buying the F-15EX.


This hit is temporary. By the end of the year the Dow will be back to pre-virus levels.



You must be kidding??? US Government is talking about funding a stimulus package of nearly a "Trillion Dollars" and this could be just the beginning. Plus, their already have deficit of another TRILLION!


So, anybody that thinks the coronavirus won't have much impact on Defense Spending. May want to re-think that position.... :wink:


We all bow down to your superior intellect.

Re: F-15X: USAF Seems Interested

Unread postPosted: 19 Mar 2020, 01:29
by Corsair1963
southernphantom wrote:

We all bow down to your superior intellect.



Your sarcasm is unwarranted and not appreciated.....

If, you have a counterview then why not just express it in a civil manner??? :idea:

Re: F-15X: USAF Seems Interested

Unread postPosted: 19 Mar 2020, 01:34
by Corsair1963
madrat wrote:
weasel1962 wrote:Not sure what not optimized means. What is the EX lacking from other F-15 models?


The CFT is optimized for A2G but the stated purpose is A2A. Contradictory statements.



If, the F-15EX was truly dedicated to the Air Defense Mission. Then why not equipment with the original "FAST packs" design over the Strike Eagles CFT's???

Re: F-15X: USAF Seems Interested

Unread postPosted: 19 Mar 2020, 13:11
by mixelflick
Corsair1963 wrote:
madrat wrote:
weasel1962 wrote:Not sure what not optimized means. What is the EX lacking from other F-15 models?


The CFT is optimized for A2G but the stated purpose is A2A. Contradictory statements.



If, the F-15EX was truly dedicated to the Air Defense Mission. Then why not equipment with the original "FAST packs" design over the Strike Eagles CFT's???


Could be many reasons...

* They plan instead to fly with 2 bags (like most F-15C's do), and carry a quad pack on AMRAAM's on centerline. This would give the EX the ability to carry up to 14 AAM's. 4 on the fuselage stations, 4 under the existing wing hardpoints, one each on newly activated weapons station 1 and 9, plus the 4 under the centerline.

* F-15SA's have been pictured flying with 2 AMRAAM's each on weapons station 1 and 9. So even without the quad pack launcher, it can carry 12 AMRAAM's vs. the current 8.

* The Perigrine. Just double whatever AMRAAM loadout you're working with, and that's how many Perigrine's it'll be able to carry. And again, it can do this with 2 bags and no CFT's.

* Money: There are many CFT's for use with F-15E's, and they're likely the simplest and most economical solution to use on F-15EX's (provided the need arises).

* New engines: Not sure how much more range they'll give the EX, but Boeing is talking about it being a much more fuel efficient engine. At least, that's what I got out of one of their recent press releases...

*

Re: F-15X: USAF Seems Interested

Unread postPosted: 20 Mar 2020, 01:02
by weasel1962
Pictures talk. Boeing strengthened the frame for later F-15s to allow the use of stations 1 & 9, which is something the F-15E can't do but the EX can. That's not just single missiles but including the dual/triple/quad launchers (as highlighted by mixelflick). As to CFT not optimised for A2A, note the AAMs on the CFT stations...

F-15SA.jpeg

Re: F-15X: USAF Seems Interested

Unread postPosted: 20 Mar 2020, 01:30
by sprstdlyscottsmn
weasel1962 wrote:Pictures talk. Boeing strengthened the frame for later F-15s to allow the use of stations 1 & 9, which is something the F-15E can't do but the EX can. That's not just single missiles but including the dual/triple/quad launchers (as highlighted by mixelflick). As to CFT not optimised for A2A, note the AAMs on the CFT stations...

F-15SA.jpeg

not optimized doesn't mean can't carry. The F-15C CFT could also carry AAMs and was rated to do so up to Mach 2.0 (compared to F-15E CFT rated to 1.4M). The F-15C CFT did not have a dozen pylons and as such produced less drag.

Re: F-15X: USAF Seems Interested

Unread postPosted: 20 Mar 2020, 05:18
by madrat
Is the F-15D NATOPS manual out there for a rough comparison of CFTs? I realize its impossible to say F-15EX would be an identical drag index under the same loads, but it would be a nice exercise to see if the drag is more than a 5% difference.

Re: F-15X: USAF Seems Interested

Unread postPosted: 20 Mar 2020, 06:02
by sprstdlyscottsmn
IIRC it is DI 5 for the C and DI 21 for the E.

Re: F-15X: USAF Seems Interested

Unread postPosted: 20 Mar 2020, 07:42
by weasel1962
Can the F-15C CFTs be used on the E?

As to pylons, I believe this can be removed as well.

Re: F-15X: USAF Seems Interested

Unread postPosted: 20 Mar 2020, 12:05
by mixelflick
weasel1962 wrote:Can the F-15C CFTs be used on the E?

As to pylons, I believe this can be removed as well.


Can they? Possibly. Would they? Unlikely...

An entire range of AMRAMM/AAM carriage possibilities are being modeled for the F-15EX. Witness what's pictured below. This would allow carriage of up to 16 AAM's alone, and that's before adding 4 more on weapons station 1 and 9, and leaves the centerline weapons station open (potentially up to 4 more AMRAAAM's on a quad launcher).

So I can see provisions for up to 24 AAM's, although in practice I'd expect no more than 12-16 to be carried at most. Whatever the case, the F-15EX will have the ability to carry more AAM's than any other US fighter.

Re: F-15X: USAF Seems Interested

Unread postPosted: 20 Mar 2020, 15:32
by charlielima223
Here is article and link with a Boeing executive. Take what he says with a grain of salt as he is trying to pitch the aircraft. I generally think Defense and Aerospace Report is a good source...

https://defaeroreport.com/2020/03/06/bo ... ure-sales/

Also if you guys haven't watched it, The Fighter Pilot Podcast has a two part F-15 episode. They focus primarily on the A,B,C, and D models. They mention the E and the EX but only in passing. Another great episode if y'all are interested.