F-15X: USAF Seems Interested

Military aircraft - Post cold war aircraft, including for example B-2, Gripen, F-18E/F Super Hornet, Rafale, and Typhoon.
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marauder2048

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Unread post07 Feb 2020, 01:07

In FY20, the Air Force asked for $149 million again strictly for the E but did so under the overall budget line for EPAWSS.
Pretty much the same amount that the Air Force had for the F-15E EPAWSS the year before.

But GAO's report to the congressional committees (largely pre-CAPE/OSD..stuff)

https://www.gao.gov/assets/700/698933.pdf (Page 148, column 2, paragraph 3)

had in it that the Air Force was now planning to procure EPAWSS for the F-15C again!

So Congress reduced EPAWSS funding for the stated reason: "Not required because of F-15X" even though
the Air Force only asked for funding the F-15E EPAWSS.

That's how incoherent the X has made things.
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madrat

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Unread post07 Feb 2020, 02:14

For the F-15EX price, the EPAWSS should be included.
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weasel1962

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Unread post07 Feb 2020, 06:29

Yes, the EPAWSS is part of the EX.
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marauder2048

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Unread post08 Feb 2020, 06:44

Color me skeptical about it being rolled into the price.

They aren't going to be done integrating EPAWSS onto the X until nearly 2024.
Deliveries are supposed to occur in 2022 or as early as this year if the Qataris
give up their position.

So it makes plenty of since to roll it into the re-re-baselined EPAWSS program
which would help stabilize that program and lower the retrofit costs for the E.
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eagle3000

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Unread post08 Feb 2020, 23:42

mixelflick wrote:Wow, so they're going with the GE engines. I wonder which ones... probably with around 29,000lbs of thrust each, which will be more powerful than the Pratt F-100's in C's, currently rated at 23,500lbs with reheat if I'm not mistaken.

Hopefully, a higher thrust to weight ratio is in the cards. Not that it's any slouch now...


It's going to be F110-129 engines. Those are the only motors certified for the advanced Eagle series.
Development cost are to be kept at a minimum, the only change compared to the QA is replacing DEWS with EPAWSS. For the same reason, there won't be a single seater.
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Corsair1963

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Unread post11 Feb 2020, 00:19

The US Air Force Needs F-35s, Not the F-15EX

By Larry Stutzriem

Director of Research, Mitchell Institute for Aerospace Studies

April 10, 2019

Only about 20 percent of USAF fighters are fifth-generation aircraft. Winning tomorrow’s wars depends on growing that share faster, not slower.


The U.S. Air Force needs more fighter aircraft and it needs them fast. The current fleet is too old and too small to guarantee the air superiority that deters potential adversaries and is essential to win wars. To reverse this dangerous state of affairs, Congress must alter the Pentagon’s proposed 2020 budget by adding F-35As, dropping the plan to buy the F-15EX, and funding the development of a next generation of air-dominance technologies.

The F-15 and F-16 were designed in the closing days of the Vietnam War, and the Air Force and industry did a fantastic job. But today, the average Eagle or Viper is more than three decades old, far past its intended service life, and is literally wearing out from structural fatigue. They are also unable to penetrate modern defenses and get home safe. Adversaries have had 40 years to tune their systems to counter these jets.

The Air Force never intended to find itself facing an air-superiority crisis. It was supposed to buy 750 F-22s in the 2000s, followed by 1,763 F-35As. Both aircraft were designed with stealth attributes to foil modern enemy air defenses, plus sensors, processors, and the ability to collaborate with a wide variety of combat assets. These “fifth-generation” technologies reshaped combat aviation, much as landlines gave way to the smartphones that have reshaped society. Aircraft without these attributes are irrelevant.

However, the Air Force’s fighter plan hit severe turbulence. The F-22 arrived in 2005, years late. The military, immersed in the generally low-tech yet costly Afghanistan and Iraq wars, ended production after just 187 jets, less than half the stated requirement. As for the F-35, delays and a host of program challenges have left the Defense Department more than 1,000 aircraft short.

https://www.defenseone.com/ideas/2019/0 ... wRsUJqvFTA
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131stfwfan

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Unread post11 Feb 2020, 01:27

Corsair1963 wrote:The US Air Force Needs F-35s, Not the F-15EX

By Larry Stutzriem

Director of Research, Mitchell Institute for Aerospace Studies

April 10, 2019

Only about 20 percent of USAF fighters are fifth-generation aircraft. Winning tomorrow’s wars depends on growing that share faster, not slower.


The U.S. Air Force needs more fighter aircraft and it needs them fast. The current fleet is too old and too small to guarantee the air superiority that deters potential adversaries and is essential to win wars. To reverse this dangerous state of affairs, Congress must alter the Pentagon’s proposed 2020 budget by adding F-35As, dropping the plan to buy the F-15EX, and funding the development of a next generation of air-dominance technologies.

fbclid=IwAR0yFrWcIhRi9HGtuzpPBVvnV7gLmtGSwY4piRcJXHr0LEn-AwRsUJqvFTA


That cost a nice piece of Lockheed's monthly marketing budget.

Not to worry, we will have the first of many F-15EX's ready for flight soon.
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Corsair1963

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Unread post11 Feb 2020, 02:04

131stfwfan wrote:
Not to worry, we will have the first of many F-15EX's ready for flight soon.



I wouldn't count on that. As future Defense Budgets are going to be much much tighter! :shock:
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neptune

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Unread post11 Feb 2020, 02:57

"...It's going to be F110-129 engines. Those are the only motors certified for the advanced Eagle series.
Development cost are to be kept at a minimum, the only change compared to the QA is replacing DEWS with EPAWSS...."

Boeing has recently demonstrated the drone of the FBW E/A-18G Growler. In addition to their drone QF-16, it will give them a headstart on "unmanning" other FBW a/c, ie: the F-15.

As a "Faithful Wingman" the drone Eagle could provide an extended missile magazine and offboard sensors (ie: AESA, I/R, EW, etc.). Those sensor signals can be passed to the F-35A by a LPD/LPI broadband mesh-networked MADL link and allow the Eagle to be active, while the Lightning remains passive.
IMHO
Fly Navy
:)
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weasel1962

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Unread post11 Feb 2020, 03:35

marauder2048 wrote:Color me skeptical about it being rolled into the price.

They aren't going to be done integrating EPAWSS onto the X until nearly 2024.
Deliveries are supposed to occur in 2022 or as early as this year if the Qataris
give up their position.

So it makes plenty of since to roll it into the re-re-baselined EPAWSS program
which would help stabilize that program and lower the retrofit costs for the E.


I agree. Based on the FY21 budget, there is an extra $850m requested for F-15 mods of which under line 106 (3600F) of the RDTE budget includes $170m for EPAWSS.

Still, its now part of the total EX program.
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mixelflick

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Unread post11 Feb 2020, 14:14

eagle3000 wrote:
mixelflick wrote:Wow, so they're going with the GE engines. I wonder which ones... probably with around 29,000lbs of thrust each, which will be more powerful than the Pratt F-100's in C's, currently rated at 23,500lbs with reheat if I'm not mistaken.

Hopefully, a higher thrust to weight ratio is in the cards. Not that it's any slouch now...


It's going to be F110-129 engines. Those are the only motors certified for the advanced Eagle series.
Development cost are to be kept at a minimum, the only change compared to the QA is replacing DEWS with EPAWSS. For the same reason, there won't be a single seater.


Excellent. That should mean a boost in thrust to the tune of 12,000lbs. I guess it depends on how much heavier the EX is, and I'm hoping its thrust to weight ratio is even higher than today's C. A higher thrust to weight ratio, much improved offensive/defensive avionics and the AIM-260 and/or Perigrine should make it competitive again. The only downside will be the (relatively) limited internal fuel load of circa 13,500lbs. They'll probably fly like C's, meaning two wing tanks to bring their range up to a more competitive level.

Do pilots prefer more internal fuel, even if it means less agility? I've often wondered what Flanker pilots think, given their supermaneuverability stunts are only possible once internal fuel is down to what, 60% or so? Never understood why the Eagle wasn't just built with more, but perhaps it has to do with that very reason. I don't think the F-35 is held back by 100% internal fuel, at least insofar as its maneuvering envelope. Which is just one more reason why we should be buying F-35's, not F-15EX's IMO...
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marsavian

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Unread post11 Feb 2020, 14:42

F-15E(X) come with CFTs as standard so it will have around 23klb of fuel before any optional EFT are added.
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Unread post11 Feb 2020, 20:15

I am disappointed they don't come with the stealth conformal weapon pods.
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wrightwing

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Unread post12 Feb 2020, 02:14

mixelflick wrote:
eagle3000 wrote:
mixelflick wrote:Wow, so they're going with the GE engines. I wonder which ones... probably with around 29,000lbs of thrust each, which will be more powerful than the Pratt F-100's in C's, currently rated at 23,500lbs with reheat if I'm not mistaken.

Hopefully, a higher thrust to weight ratio is in the cards. Not that it's any slouch now...


It's going to be F110-129 engines. Those are the only motors certified for the advanced Eagle series.
Development cost are to be kept at a minimum, the only change compared to the QA is replacing DEWS with EPAWSS. For the same reason, there won't be a single seater.


Excellent. That should mean a boost in thrust to the tune of 12,000lbs. I guess it depends on how much heavier the EX is, and I'm hoping its thrust to weight ratio is even higher than today's C. A higher thrust to weight ratio, much improved offensive/defensive avionics and the AIM-260 and/or Perigrine should make it competitive again. The only downside will be the (relatively) limited internal fuel load of circa 13,500lbs. They'll probably fly like C's, meaning two wing tanks to bring their range up to a more competitive level.

Do pilots prefer more internal fuel, even if it means less agility? I've often wondered what Flanker pilots think, given their supermaneuverability stunts are only possible once internal fuel is down to what, 60% or so? Never understood why the Eagle wasn't just built with more, but perhaps it has to do with that very reason. I don't think the F-35 is held back by 100% internal fuel, at least insofar as its maneuvering envelope. Which is just one more reason why we should be buying F-35's, not F-15EX's IMO...


It's the same amount of thrust as E models with -229 motors. To get a boost, they'd need to go with the -132/-232s.
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Corsair1963

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Unread post12 Feb 2020, 03:44

marsavian wrote:F-15E(X) come with CFTs as standard so it will have around 23klb of fuel before any optional EFT are added.



Honestly, doesn't help that much. As you have to subtract all of that weight from the gross. Which, doesn't even touch on the considerable penalty in drag!
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