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Re: F-15X: USAF Seems Interested

Unread postPosted: 12 Sep 2019, 05:49
by Corsair1963
vilters wrote:What?
8? ?
Is that one for each museum in 50 years? Or how did they calculate that number?

Ah, 2 test AC; Probably one to test the static pressure system and one for the dynamic pressue system.

And somebody puts that on paper? A toilet lady does a better job.

Or do they need airframes to test the 737 AOA probes?



Will be a long time before the first F-15EX Squadron ever stands up.....When it does it's going to look mighty old! :shock:

Re: F-15X: USAF Seems Interested

Unread postPosted: 12 Sep 2019, 09:58
by marsavian
Won't the EX just merge into the C squadrons, isn't that the whole point of it ?

Re: F-15X: USAF Seems Interested

Unread postPosted: 12 Sep 2019, 12:38
by mixelflick
marsavian wrote:Won't the EX just merge into the C squadrons, isn't that the whole point of it ?


I still can't believe we're building this thing, but it sounds like it won't be stopped so..

Has Boeing finalized the F-15EX design? Sounds like it'll be along the lines of the F-15SA so... what are we talking here?

1.) Up-rated, higher thrust GE/P and W engines. If so, what's the new air to air configured thrust to weight ratio?
2.) Able to carry 16-22 AAM's? I imagine it'll sling the new AIM-260, as they both should be coming online at the same time..
3.) More internal fuel?
4.) Fly by wire/new flight software
5.) Brand new glass cockpit, with new radar, E/W systems etc.

I'd love for the Eagle to match the Flanker's internal fuel capacity and get thrust vectoring engines, but it is what it is I guess.

Re: F-15X: USAF Seems Interested

Unread postPosted: 12 Sep 2019, 13:08
by sferrin
I can't believe it either but it's not like the line wasn't still building aircraft. The more I think about it the more I wonder if at least part of the thinking is, "we need to keep as many lines active as possible in the event the world starts to get REALLY crazy".

Re: F-15X: USAF Seems Interested

Unread postPosted: 12 Sep 2019, 17:41
by basher54321
mixelflick wrote:Won't the EX just merge into the C squadrons, isn't that the whole point of it ?

I still can't believe we're building this thing, but it sounds like it won't be stopped so..

Has Boeing finalized the F-15EX design? Sounds like it'll be along the lines of the F-15SA so... what are we talking here?



Boeing page on the F-15EX:
https://www.boeing.com/defense/f-15ex/

looks like an SA with USAF specific changes.

12 certified A-A points, same GE-129 engines, same fuel I expect. Same FBW as SA, cockpit might be new or might be on current F-15s anyway.



The USAF F-15EX will be a two-seat aircraft, aligned with the Advanced F-15, and will be powered by the same General Electric F110-GE-129 Improved Performance Engines. It will be ready almost immediately to roll off the active production line in St Louis, Missouri, with a few of the USAF F-15E’s latest modernization elements sprinkled in. The exercise brings about cost avoidance by using existing spares chains and support equipment. It also facilitates ease of transition, not taking a squadron off-line for an 18 to 30-month re-equipping and training phase.
The F-15EX will have a large area cockpit display and digital Joint Helmet-Mounted Cueing System (JHMCS).

Because partly of the foreign investment in the new displays and management of the systems, everything can be run from the front seat of the EX — the missionized rear cockpit can be optionally occupied by a weapons systems offi cer. All talk to date has centered on the two-seat EX, not a spin-off single-seat F-15CX. In fact, the USAF has said that F-15C units receiving F-15EXs will operate them with the rear seat unoccupied. Porting the Advanced F-15 into a single-seat CX would require some sort of re-certifi cation of the complex fly-by-wire system, and although the two aircraft retain the same overall dimensions, any risk incurred from new testing may prove unacceptable. The F-15EX is the preferred out-of-the box solution, initially at least. In fact, the first F-15EXs will likely go straight into test, in order to support the existing USAF EPAWSS initiative.

The F-15EX minimizes the training burden for an already overstretched system that is trying to maximize pilot production and retention. Transitioning an F-15C pilot to an F-15EX will be very straightforward as Boeing uses USAF pilots to deliver new Eagles that are currently coming o ff the St Louis production line.

The F-15EX will directly replace F-15Cs in both active-duty and Air National Guard units, although Goldfein says exact fielding plans still rest with Congress. Plans call for the initial two jets to be provided on a fast timeline to provide extra capacity for the EPAWSS test work, with subsequent aircraft destined for the USAF Weapons School at Nellis AFB, Nevada, and a few joining training activities for the initial conversion process. A source familiar with the discussions told Combat Aircraft that no specific F-15EX testing is planned.

combataircraft.net Oct 2019

Re: F-15X: USAF Seems Interested

Unread postPosted: 13 Sep 2019, 01:50
by outlaw162
USAF F-15EX, USMC F-18F.....what they need is an optional fuel tank that's shaped like a WSO and can be strapped in the backseat.

Re: F-15X: USAF Seems Interested

Unread postPosted: 13 Sep 2019, 12:38
by vilters
At least it has a gun.

Better then a pilot key his mike and yell : "Bang- Bang- Bang, you are dead".

Re: F-15X: USAF Seems Interested

Unread postPosted: 13 Sep 2019, 12:56
by sferrin
vilters wrote:At least it has a gun.

Better then a pilot key his mike and yell : "Bang- Bang- Bang, you are dead".


do those exist?

Re: F-15X: USAF Seems Interested

Unread postPosted: 13 Sep 2019, 15:27
by mixelflick
Thank you for the links to the EX...

So the new engines put out nearly 60,000lbs of thrust in full afterburner... Which is around 10,000lbs more thrust than the current F-100's. I took the following figures from the F-15QA page, insofar as weight is concerned..

45,000 lb (20, 411 kg) class 81,000 lb (36, 700 kg) max gross takeoff

So I'm guessing around 50 to 55,000lbs for a fully loaded/air to air configured bird? If so, that's going to have a pretty sprightly thrust to weight ratio! Even assuming it's configured with 2 CFT's and a dozen AMRAAM's, it's going to be a beast - even compared to the F-15C.

But even so.. I still can't believe we're buying this thing. And they're talking about buying over 100 of them! Boy, I sure am glad we stopped F-22 production at 187/sarcasm off. God, we could have been sitting pretty with 350 F-22's right now. Instead, we're ramping up production of.... the aircraft the F-22 was supposed to replace :doh:

Which means.. the F-15 will likely go down in history as the B-52 of air superiority - it just won't die. Dunno who's laughing harder: The boys at McDonnell Douglas/Boeing or the Russians/Chinese.. :bang:

Re: F-15X: USAF Seems Interested

Unread postPosted: 13 Sep 2019, 16:12
by marsavian
Playing devil's advocate here ...

.... F-22 was expensive to buy and to maintain. If there was such a big demand for it the earlier block training F-22 would be brought up to later block combat coded status but that would be expensive to do to, ~$50m per plane. It's flawed in that it has no IRST or DAS like F-35. It also does not carry any serious load externally like F-15EX. Discuss ... ;)

Re: F-15X: USAF Seems Interested

Unread postPosted: 13 Sep 2019, 16:19
by sferrin
marsavian wrote:Playing devil's advocate here ...

.... F-22 was expensive to buy and to maintain. If there was such a big demand for it the earlier block training F-22 would be brought up to later block combat coded status but that would be expensive to do to, ~$50m per plane. It's flawed in that it has no IRST or DAS like F-35. It also does not carry any serious load externally like F-15EX. Discuss ... ;)


They could add an IRST if it needed it. DAS is not magic. Carries as much as it needs to externally. (It's not meant as a strike aircraft.)

Re: F-15X: USAF Seems Interested

Unread postPosted: 13 Sep 2019, 16:55
by marsavian
It would also be expensive to update the computer/network/software systems. I love the F-22 as much as any enthusiast but one can't but help feel, using a motoring analogy, it's a bit of an expensive ageing classic Ferrari to own and maintain.

Re: F-15X: USAF Seems Interested

Unread postPosted: 13 Sep 2019, 17:17
by basher54321
mixelflick wrote:Thank you for the links to the EX...

So the new engines put out nearly 60,000lbs of thrust in full afterburner... Which is around 10,000lbs more thrust than the current F-100's. I took the following figures from the F-15QA page, insofar as weight is concerned..



USAF F-15Es used/use both the F100-PW-220 (25Klbs ea) and the F100-PW-229 (29K lbs ea) - don't know the current ratio of each.

Re: F-15X: USAF Seems Interested

Unread postPosted: 13 Sep 2019, 17:22
by basher54321
outlaw162 wrote:USAF F-15EX, USMC F-18F.....what they need is an optional fuel tank that's shaped like a WSO and can be strapped in the backseat.



:lmao:

Re: F-15X: USAF Seems Interested

Unread postPosted: 13 Sep 2019, 17:29
by marsavian
basher54321 wrote:
mixelflick wrote:Thank you for the links to the EX...

So the new engines put out nearly 60,000lbs of thrust in full afterburner... Which is around 10,000lbs more thrust than the current F-100's. I took the following figures from the F-15QA page, insofar as weight is concerned..



USAF F-15Es used/use both the F100-PW-220 (25Klbs ea) and the F100-PW-229 (29K lbs ea) - don't know the current ratio of each.


3 squadrons out of 8 use the F100-PW-229

viewtopic.php?p=417826#p417826

333rd FS "Lancers" - F100-PW-220
334th FS "Fighting Eagles" - F100-PW-220
335th FS "Chiefs" - F100-PW-220
336th FS "Rocketeers" - F100-PW-220
389th FS "Thunderbolts" - F100-PW-220

391st FS "Bold Tigers" - F100-PW-229
492nd FS "Madhatters" - F100-PW-229
494th FS "Panthers" - F100-PW-229