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Re: SU-57: On hold for a decade

Unread postPosted: 10 Sep 2019, 17:23
by southerncross
milosh wrote:PAK-FA 057 look really sleek, I hope it isn't just marketing (for delegations) but serials would be sleek as that:

Already prototypes 10 and 11 should be 99% serial-looking, so I guess the plane will not change much compared to them or the very similar 057.

Re: SU-57: On hold for a decade

Unread postPosted: 11 Sep 2019, 02:18
by Corsair1963
Here's a ground view....looks like a little touch up to me??? :?


Su57Q.jpg

Re: SU-57: On hold for a decade

Unread postPosted: 11 Sep 2019, 10:22
by milosh
Corsair1963 wrote:Here's a ground view....looks like a little touch up to me??? :?


Su57Q.jpg


We need to wait and see, in theory 057 is who serial Su-57 v0.75 would look like. If serial really look like 057 then Russians didn't skip on RAM treatment of airframe.

Re: SU-57: On hold for a decade

Unread postPosted: 11 Sep 2019, 13:28
by esq
southerncross


So, cuz of your victimized nature and lack of responsibility for the actions, i'll finish my own quest-s for the track.

1) That's create the situations where companies IN MOST CASES can and will hire only low-profile, oftenly uneducated, unexpierenced staff. Whole internal culture start to demounting, employer doesn't find himself interesting in teaching someone who can quit after 1-3 years or can be just unteachable.
That lead to all things that we can observe in the 57's productions and creating process.
As the example - whole story about N036 and overall AESA, DIRCM, 101KS Atoll system configuration, engine production epopee.

For the close look and analogy,the AESA story which you probably missed at all: :doh:
https://www.ausairpower.net/APA-Zhuk-AE-Analysis.html

The radar was created in 2007-08 from the SU base and still was inoperable - even with the help of the hindus and israelis who was bringing on testing for MMRCA.
Device wasn't just "underperforming piece of ..." but even didn't had good and reliable process for maintenance. Not mentioning the imported parts for this so-called "russian AESA" and etc.

https://www.janes.com/article/84713/pha ... ter-trials
In 2018 they made anouncement and..still there! No one knows how can it perform in real life, they still stuck in this. Can't perform opendoors simulations or live actions, can't fulfill requirment of any potential foreign customer.
Why project need so much time to make it work? Why it taking so long to make such announcemnt?

Do YOU have any answers for this?

The absolutely same story with Byelka: radar, which should be not just AESA but DOMESTIC-BUILD AESA fall in the testing for 5-7 years(as Zhuk after indian fail) with equally zero information about it(same as Zhuk right now). Who the hell will be interested in purchase it when it smells so bad? :o

2nd later, honey :oops:

Re: SU-57: On hold for a decade

Unread postPosted: 11 Sep 2019, 13:40
by esq
milosh wrote:
Corsair1963 wrote:Here's a ground view....looks like a little touch up to me??? :?


Su57Q.jpg


We need to wait and see, in theory 057 is who serial Su-57 v0.75 would look like. If serial really look like 057 then Russians didn't skip on RAM treatment of airframe.


What do you mean by RAM? Painting or internal structure?

Re: SU-57: On hold for a decade

Unread postPosted: 11 Sep 2019, 17:48
by botsing
A certain Turkish person wanted to take a closer look as well:

0001.jpg


0002.jpg


0003.jpg


0004.jpg


0005.jpg

Re: SU-57: On hold for a decade

Unread postPosted: 11 Sep 2019, 18:03
by sprstdlyscottsmn
esq wrote:
milosh wrote:What do you mean by RAM? Painting or internal structure?

RAM is a material, RAS is the structure

Re: SU-57: On hold for a decade

Unread postPosted: 11 Sep 2019, 18:17
by milosh
esq wrote:
milosh wrote:
Corsair1963 wrote:Here's a ground view....looks like a little touch up to me??? :?


Su57Q.jpg


We need to wait and see, in theory 057 is who serial Su-57 v0.75 would look like. If serial really look like 057 then Russians didn't skip on RAM treatment of airframe.


What do you mean by RAM? Painting or internal structure?


I didn't mean paint because prototypes which are flying are painted too but there is noticeable difference between them and 057. What I guess Su-57 is closer to F-22 then F-35 in therms of RAM, it need thicker layer of RAM I doubt it have fiber mat as F-35.

So when you apply RAM coatings on Su-57 you can see noticeable difference between RAM threated plane and non RAM treated.

Btw, using Zhuk-AE as analogy isn't logical. Zhuk-AE was private project, NIIR needed Indians to selected MiG-35 so it could repay credit it took from bank for development and get new credit to finish R&D and production line, because Indians didn't select MiG-35 NIIR was near bankruptcy and state bailout company. NIIR is really weak with electric scan array radars for fighters. NIIP for example making them from mid 1970s, they have huge experience especially with software for such radars compared to NIIR.

No Israelis were involed in Zhuk-AE development, USA would go nuts if something like that happen. Neither Indians were involed, just NIIR and their promises. I think much better solution would be they focused on some PESA radar for MiG-35. It would be finish years ago and now they could offer MiG-35 with it to Indians, and not still promising Zhuk-AE is around corner when much more experienced NIIP with state funding only recently finish N036 development (probable not fully capable).

Re: SU-57: On hold for a decade

Unread postPosted: 11 Sep 2019, 23:35
by vilters
You can RAM the RAM over and under the RAM.
With those engines and exhausts, I don't think many care.

Re: SU-57: On hold for a decade

Unread postPosted: 12 Sep 2019, 07:07
by knowan
There's no RAM coating in those pictures, just regular paint.

Re: SU-57: On hold for a decade

Unread postPosted: 12 Sep 2019, 17:21
by charlielima223
Where are those DIRCM nodes seen on other PAKFAs?
Image
Image

Are these PAKFAs on display earlier versions with a new paint job or did they do another redsign to improve stealth qualities?

Updated...
Oh wait... nvm. The red structures on the display aircraft are in the same area where the DIRCM nodes are. It would seem they redesigned them. Earlier photos show them to be more spherical shape. These pictures show then to be more cylindrical in shape.

Re: SU-57: On hold for a decade

Unread postPosted: 12 Sep 2019, 19:16
by milosh
knowan wrote:There's no RAM coating in those pictures, just regular paint.


Look this photo:
download/file.php?id=31287&mode=view

you can barely see panels of fuel probe doors.

And here is how it look like on painted 051:
https://i1.wp.com/theaviationist.com/wp ... K-FA-1.jpg

So it isn't just paint it is something apply over paint, in theory we can say second paint layer but I really doubt that, investing in stealthy airframe and not develop RAM coatings for it? Btw Tu-160M1 had RAM coatings, new startegic cruise missiles have them, even Su-34 had RAM coatings, even soviet thermonuclear warheads for 1960s have RAM coatings but Su-57 not having them???


@charlielima223

Yes it is strange not having them, but how knows maybe it compromise RCS enough so they decide it is better not to have them?

Re: SU-57: On hold for a decade

Unread postPosted: 12 Sep 2019, 22:12
by falcon.16
knowan wrote:There's no RAM coating in those pictures, just regular paint.


How you know it?

99% sure it bring ram coat. But it does not mean is same Ram than in F-22 or F-35. Russia need Ram with few maintenance.

Re: SU-57: On hold for a decade

Unread postPosted: 12 Sep 2019, 22:14
by falcon.16
charlielima223 wrote:Where are those DIRCM nodes seen on other PAKFAs?
Image
Image

Are these PAKFAs on display earlier versions with a new paint job or did they do another redsign to improve stealth qualities?

Updated...
Oh wait... nvm. The red structures on the display aircraft are in the same area where the DIRCM nodes are. It would seem they redesigned them. Earlier photos show them to be more spherical shape. These pictures show then to be more cylindrical in shape.


It is a protection, nothing more. :roll:

Re: SU-57: On hold for a decade

Unread postPosted: 13 Sep 2019, 08:35
by knowan
falcon.16 wrote:
knowan wrote:There's no RAM coating in those pictures, just regular paint.


How you know it?

99% sure it bring ram coat. But it does not mean is same Ram than in F-22 or F-35. Russia need Ram with few maintenance.


Visible panel riveting and large color differences.