J-20 goes operational

milosh · by **milosh** » 11 Nov 2017, 21:17

Corsair1963 wrote:
Corsair1963 wrote:The F-35 is ramping up quickly and will be building well over a hundred every year post 2020. That would put extreme pressure on China to increase production of the J-20 and/or J-31. Otherwise, she will be hopelessly outclassed.....

Which, is why the J-31 is so "critical" to the Chinese Military. As it must be able to mass produce. A capable yet affordable 5th Generation Fighter in quantity!

It look like J-31 will be for export only, probable first for Pakistan then others (maybe Iran). Navy was interested but Type 002 carrier will have EMALS even though it isn't nuclear carrier:
http://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomac ... nch-system

Probable they plan to use PMM, which Zumwalt would have but it was dropped because of longer development time.

madrat · by **madrat** » 12 Nov 2017, 01:27

Who are these fantasy J-31 customers? Argentina? Myanmar? Bangladesh? Pakistan? I'm curious. They will struggle to export 100 at the current rate.

milosh · by **milosh** » 12 Nov 2017, 12:37

madrat wrote:Who are these fantasy J-31 customers? Argentina? Myanmar? Bangladesh? Pakistan? I'm curious. They will struggle to export 100 at the current rate.

We will see Pakistan and Iran is very likely customers probable Iraq. If F-35 isn't offer to gulf states well I doubt they will not want stealth fighter if Iran have one.

Corsair1963 · by **Corsair1963** » 13 Nov 2017, 08:05

milosh wrote:
madrat wrote:Who are these fantasy J-31 customers? Argentina? Myanmar? Bangladesh? Pakistan? I'm curious. They will struggle to export 100 at the current rate.

We will see Pakistan and Iran is very likely customers probable Iraq. If F-35 isn't offer to gulf states well I doubt they will not want stealth fighter if Iran have one.

Honestly, I know some think I am crazy. Yet, I seriously believe Russia could be a customer for the J-31 in the future. As it will need something in the F-35/J-31 Class in the coming decades. Which, clearly is not the Su-57..... :wink:

Corsair1963 · by **Corsair1963** » 13 Nov 2017, 08:10

milosh wrote:
Corsair1963 wrote:
Corsair1963 wrote:The F-35 is ramping up quickly and will be building well over a hundred every year post 2020. That would put extreme pressure on China to increase production of the J-20 and/or J-31. Otherwise, she will be hopelessly outclassed.....

Which, is why the J-31 is so "critical" to the Chinese Military. As it must be able to mass produce. A capable yet affordable 5th Generation Fighter in quantity!

It look like J-31 will be for export only, probable first for Pakistan then others (maybe Iran). Navy was interested but Type 002 carrier will have EMALS even though it isn't nuclear carrier:
http://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomac ... nch-system

Probable they plan to use PMM, which Zumwalt would have but it was dropped because of longer development time.

Honestly, this talk that the J-31 is solely being designed for export only is pure folly. As China needs large numbers of Strike Fighters just like the US....

weasel1962 · by **weasel1962** » 13 Nov 2017, 09:06

If the J-31 is as good as the F-35, then it makes sense for China to procure it but I am not so sure the assumption holds. The biggest issue is the engine. The F135 engine enables the F-35 to gain a lot of weight in exchange for capability. The Al-31F has a 10k lb thrust gap vs F-135 and if one is going dual engine, it might as well be a J-20. Although 2xRD-93s replicate the total thrust of a F-135, it should be noted that China has not adopted the RD-93 even though they had access to it. The Pakistanis did for the JF-17 but the Chinese pitch continues to be that a single engined J-10 is far superior to the JF-17 so the adoption is questionable. That’s what makes the export pitch believable. Otherwise J-31 just a technology demonstrator or Mig-29 pitched as a low-cost fighter in the hi-lo mix which never worked out.

Corsair1963 · by **Corsair1963** » 13 Nov 2017, 11:24

weasel1962 wrote:If the J-31 is as good as the F-35, then it makes sense for China to procure it but I am not so sure the assumption holds. The biggest issue is the engine. The F135 engine enables the F-35 to gain a lot of weight in exchange for capability. The Al-31F has a 10k lb thrust gap vs F-135 and if one is going dual engine, it might as well be a J-20. Although 2xRD-93s replicate the total thrust of a F-135, it should be noted that China has not adopted the RD-93 even though they had access to it. The Pakistanis did for the JF-17 but the Chinese pitch continues to be that a single engined J-10 is far superior to the JF-17 so the adoption is questionable. That’s what makes the export pitch believable. Otherwise J-31 just a technology demonstrator or Mig-29 pitched as a low-cost fighter in the hi-lo mix which never worked out.

I didn't say the J-31 was as good or better than the F-35. I was just pointing out the fact that China needs a Strike Fighter in that class.

Also, most don't believe the J-20 is as good as the F-22. So, should China also cancel that program too???

milosh · by **milosh** » 13 Nov 2017, 11:31

@Corsair1963

Do you know J-31 is private project? And its mark is FC-31 not J-31 to be precise because J-XX is for military financed projects.

Leading engineer hoped FC-31 will be adopted by navy and also for export he didn't mentioned PLAAF at all. PLAAF doesn't want it because of J-20 and becuase engine compatibility, J-10/11/20 all have similar class engine.

But it look like FC-31 will not be accepted by navy because type-002 carrier will have emals so naval J-20 isn't problem.

PLAAF strike fighter will not be stealthy, it would be version J-10 with some VLO tech that was mentioned couple of times.

Russian strike fighter is and will be Su-34, in fact they even consider to make CAS variant with armored engines and fuel tanks. It is lot easier then to make some new Su-25.

weasel1962 · by **weasel1962** » 13 Nov 2017, 11:50

Corsair1963 wrote:I didn't say the J-31 was as good or better than the F-35. I was just pointing out the fact that China needs a Strike Fighter in that class.

Also, most don't believe the J-20 is as good as the F-22. So, should China also cancel that program too???

Agree. Eventually there needs to be a J-10 replacement. However, I don't think J-31 is the answer which is the point I am making.

hythelday · by **hythelday** » 13 Nov 2017, 12:06

milosh wrote:Russian strike fighter is and will be Su-34, in fact they even consider to make CAS variant with armored engines and fuel tanks. It is lot easier then to make some new Su-25.

Any news if they are going to make it happen? I heard it maybe a couple of years ago and it seemed more like a rumor.

milosh · by **milosh** » 13 Nov 2017, 13:46

hythelday wrote:
milosh wrote:Russian strike fighter is and will be Su-34, in fact they even consider to make CAS variant with armored engines and fuel tanks. It is lot easier then to make some new Su-25.

Any news if they are going to make it happen? I heard it maybe a couple of years ago and it seemed more like a rumor.

If they are going for that I expect when time to replace Su-25SM3 came, so probable after 2025 or end of next decade, also in that time new engine will be available so Su-34 will not lose lot of agility even with additional armor.

disconnectedradical · by **disconnectedradical** » 14 Nov 2017, 03:52

So, a newer J-20 that came out recently got an actual EO device under the nose now.

Have to admit, the J-20 is worrying me a bit now. From these pictures the build quality doesn't seem bad at all. :shock:

Corsair1963 · by **Corsair1963** » 14 Nov 2017, 05:17

milosh wrote:@Corsair1963

Do you know J-31 is private project? And its mark is FC-31 not J-31 to be precise because J-XX is for military financed projects.

Leading engineer hoped FC-31 will be adopted by navy and also for export he didn't mentioned PLAAF at all. PLAAF doesn't want it because of J-20 and becuase engine compatibility, J-10/11/20 all have similar class engine.

But it look like FC-31 will not be accepted by navy because type-002 carrier will have emals so naval J-20 isn't problem.

PLAAF strike fighter will not be stealthy, it would be version J-10 with some VLO tech that was mentioned couple of times.

Russian strike fighter is and will be Su-34, in fact they even consider to make CAS variant with armored engines and fuel tanks. It is lot easier then to make some new Su-25.

Laughable........First, I have a bridge to sell you. If, you think the Chinese Government is not providing funding for the J-31. Second, I have a large bridge to sell you. If, you think the J-20 is going to be the sole 5th Generation Stealth Fighter for both the PLAAF and PLAN. Third, if you think China and Russia are going to rely on obsolete 4/4.5 Generation Fighters as they primary Strike Fighters. While, the US and her many Allies produce "thousands" of F-35's. Then I suggest you cut back on the Medication. As it will be your undoing...... :shock:

Corsair1963 · by **Corsair1963** » 14 Nov 2017, 05:22

weasel1962 wrote:
Corsair1963 wrote:I didn't say the J-31 was as good or better than the F-35. I was just pointing out the fact that China needs a Strike Fighter in that class.

Also, most don't believe the J-20 is as good as the F-22. So, should China also cancel that program too???

Agree. Eventually there needs to be a J-10 replacement. However, I don't think J-31 is the answer which is the point I am making.

The point is the J-31 is the only answer. As it would take another 15-20 years to develop a totally new replacement. You think China will be willing to wait that long???

Corsair1963 · by **Corsair1963** » 14 Nov 2017, 05:27

Honestly, it's clear China is serious about making the J-31 work. By the major redesign of the aircraft over the past 12-24 months.....