Russia to develop VTOL fighter

[zerion]

No more plans for Russia super carrier

http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-bu ... uise-23356

[XanderCrews]

No more plans for Russia super carrier

http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-bu ... uise-23356

OMG no way!?

[zerion]

deleted

[count_to_10]

Well, to be honest, surface fleets are for projecting power and securing sea ways, and the US and it’s allies already do the latter.

[XanderCrews]

Well, to be honest, surface fleets are for projecting power and securing sea ways, and the US and it’s allies already do the latter.

Russian navy has always been the odd man out... and the USSR used to have two branches of air force!

[mixelflick]

No more plans for Russia super carrier

http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-bu ... uise-23356

As the old saying goes, go big or go home..

Building a 110,000t carrier and simultaneously pursuing a new VTOL fighter is a great cognitive dissonance. What's the point? You either go big with CAT's and fixed wing birds, go small with no CAT's and VTOL birds or... do neither. Sounds like they settled on subs, cruise missiles and some other odds and ends. Makes a lot more sense IMO...

[sferrin]

Well, to be honest, surface fleets are for projecting power and securing sea ways, and the US and it’s allies already do the latter.

Russian navy has always been the odd man out... and the USSR used to have two branches of air force!

Hell, the US used to have FOUR: SAC, TAC, MAC, and ADC.

[Corsair1963]

No more plans for Russia super carrier

http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-bu ... uise-23356

As the old saying goes, go big or go home..

Building a 110,000t carrier and simultaneously pursuing a new VTOL fighter is a great cognitive dissonance. What's the point? You either go big with CAT's and fixed wing birds, go small with no CAT's and VTOL birds or... do neither. Sounds like they settled on subs, cruise missiles and some other odds and ends. Makes a lot more sense IMO...

Russia settled on Submarines, Cruise Missiles, and Frigates. Because that is all she can afford......

[zerion]

Russia unlikely to build new aircraft carrier before 2030

https://www.navyrecognition.com/index.p ... -2030.html

[mixelflick]

So here we are, 9 pages later. Let's recap what we know to be true..

1.) The Russians won't be building a super-carrier anytime soon. Their current carrier is a joke, having limped back to port after losing a Mig-29 and SU-33 on her "cruise" out to Syria
2.) The SU-33 has been passed over in favor of Mig-29K's
3.) Hold the phone though: The plan was for navalised SU-57's too.
4.) Only problem with that is that we have a press release from Russians themselves - there will be no mass production. Just 12 examples ordered. I wonder how many of those 12 will be involved in sea trials? LOL
5.) This new VTOL fighter is going to fly from... where again? Since they'll be no super-carrier, it won't be flying from there. Maybe they're thinking of building a QE type carrier? Whatever the case, no catapults equals very limited capability.

The whole thing sounds like a giant fustercluck. They're making Mig-29K's which are obsolete before they're put together at the factory. The SU-57 project is having a tough time operating from runways, nevermind carriers. And the VTOL fighter is getting funded from, where.... ? This may be the best example of Russian "brochure weapons" and grandiose planning that amounts to... nothing I've ever seen.

Inn, before COBRA321 corrects us saying everything's proceeding according to plan...

[collimatrix]

So here we are, 9 pages later. Let's recap what we know to be true..

1.) The Russians won't be building a super-carrier anytime soon. Their current carrier is a joke, having limped back to port after losing a Mig-29 and SU-33 on her "cruise" out to Syria

Compared to a US Nimitz/Ford class? Not the same ballpark, it ain't the same league, it ain't even the same sport. There's a critical size threshold where a carrier is able to undertake simultaneous launch and recovery operations. The Kuznetsov is below this threshold, and US supercarriers are above it. Simple as that. Furthermore, the Kuznetsov doesn't have catapults, which means it can't launch fixed-wing AEW aircraft. That makes it a lot less strategically independent than a US supercarrier.

But if you compare the Kuznetsov to other medium-sized carriers like the HMS Queen Elizabeth, INS Vikramaditya or even the Charles de Gaulle, it's not a bad ship. The biggest problems are the lack of crew experience and that the ship is badly in need of overhaul.

2.) The SU-33 has been passed over in favor of Mig-29K's

Not exactly. All in-service SU-33s are ancient, and it's not obvious that KnAAPO was even capable of making new ones. A lot of the initial development of the navalized Flankers was done in Ukraine, remember. In fact, the Chinese snagged a SU-33 prototype from Ukraine which they then reverse-engineered to make the J-15. The SU-33 has a fair number of unique parts from land-based Flankers, and those parts might have been sourced from Ukraine. It is entirely possible that the Russians can't currently make new SU-33s. This was a big problem for Russian Federation forces after the breakup of the USSR. The plant that made all their heavy machine guns was in Kazakhstan, the plant that made their SU-25s was in Georgia, and the plant that made all their T-80UDs was in Ukraine.

More likely the MiG-29K contract was a way to keep the lights on and the doors open at MiG, and have at least something that can fly off of their carrier. Their SU-33s are likely near the end of their service lives, and it might make more sense to keep MiG on life support than to develop a SLEP for the tiny SU-33 fleet.

3.) Hold the phone though: The plan was for navalised SU-57's too.

I'll believe it when I see it.

4.) Only problem with that is that we have a press release from Russians themselves - there will be no mass production. Just 12 examples ordered. I wonder how many of those 12 will be involved in sea trials? LOL

I strongly suspect that this was a sensationalized mis-translation of a single out-of-context quote, but we'll see. The production SU-27 is completely redesigned from the initial T-10 prototypes because Sukhoi wasn't happy with the initial results. This could be a similar situation.

The whole thing sounds like a giant fustercluck. They're making Mig-29K's which are obsolete before they're put together at the factory. The SU-57 project is having a tough time operating from runways, nevermind carriers. And the VTOL fighter is getting funded from, where.... ? This may be the best example of Russian "brochure weapons" and grandiose planning that amounts to... nothing I've ever seen.

The Russians were recently reaching out to the UAE as potential partners in a new fifth-generation fighter program. I could see Turkey as another potential partner, if Russia and Turkey are able to resolve their differences over the situation in Syria and Turkey can't partner with the UK (who have better tech).

[vilters]

I don't know what to think about Russian aviation any more.
The more I look at it, the more mess I see.

When building a new A/C generation, you build a NEW aircraft generation.

The PAK-FA is build like all others before and since.
Rough, with a hammer and a screwdriver. If you look at some pictures, with overlapping panels, exposed stuff all around, a finish that does not even come close on how our F-104's were build half a century AGO.

Flying aircraft that still have to wait 5 more years for their engines?
Flying aircraft that don't even come close to 4th generation avionix?

Supposed to be LO RCS, but half of it is bare steel plate? ? How can one get something like that approved in the first place? ?

The ONLY use, and I mean the ONLY use I can see is a testbed for LEVCONS. probably the ONLY thing that performs more or less to specs.

Melt them down ASAP, and start over.

Russia building a VTOL? Not in your wettest dreams for the first 20 years or so.
Let's start with question number 1 : What engine?

[vilters]

Brings me on another brainwave I always get when seeing a Russian plane close up, be it a Mig or Su aircraft.

They did not read about, or understand RAM completely. ( or the translation was done by a Chinese guy reading Japanese ).

In Russian RAM means : Rough Amateurish Machinery.

UNBELIEVABLE how they still rivet plates over plates over bulkheads.

If you guys even have the chance? ? ? ? Go see a Mig 29 center line tank. => You are warned ! ! ! OK?

PS, that CLT design and welding must have taken at least a double Wodka plus taxes to complete. LOL.

Do something alike in the West and they put you in jail .

[mk82]

So here we are, 9 pages later. Let's recap what we know to be true..

1.) The Russians won't be building a super-carrier anytime soon. Their current carrier is a joke, having limped back to port after losing a Mig-29 and SU-33 on her "cruise" out to Syria
2.) The SU-33 has been passed over in favor of Mig-29K's
3.) Hold the phone though: The plan was for navalised SU-57's too.
4.) Only problem with that is that we have a press release from Russians themselves - there will be no mass production. Just 12 examples ordered. I wonder how many of those 12 will be involved in sea trials? LOL
5.) This new VTOL fighter is going to fly from... where again? Since they'll be no super-carrier, it won't be flying from there. Maybe they're thinking of building a QE type carrier? Whatever the case, no catapults equals very limited capability.

The whole thing sounds like a giant fustercluck. They're making Mig-29K's which are obsolete before they're put together at the factory. The SU-57 project is having a tough time operating from runways, nevermind carriers. And the VTOL fighter is getting funded from, where.... ? This may be the best example of Russian "brochure weapons" and grandiose planning that amounts to... nothing I've ever seen.

Inn, before COBRA321 corrects us saying everything's proceeding according to plan...

Spot on!

[spazsinbad]

Meanwhile back in KUZNETSOV land: Kuznetsov Undergoes MiG-29K Refit 09 Aug 2018
"The Russian navy has embarked on a three-year project to modernize its sole aircraft carrier..."
https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news ... -29k-refit