F-18E Downes Syrian Warplane

[juretrn]

You know what they say -
a barking dog doesn't bite.
And it seems the Russians plan to bark themselves to death.

[zero-one]

Not sure how Credible the information here is:
https://theaviationgeekclub.com/breakin ... nd-answer/

In fact it seems that the Su-22 kill was scored by an F/A-18E Super Hornet from VFA-87 Golden Warriors that apparently fired two missiles: one AIM-9X Sidewinder from a range of just 0.6 miles which missed the Sukhoi; and then an AIM-120 AMRAAM which shot down the Su-22.

If this is true then theres a bit of stuff here.
1. It was a phonebooth fight
2. The 9X actually missed
3. The AMRAAM can dogfight

[neurotech]

Not sure how Credible the information here is:
https://theaviationgeekclub.com/breakin ... nd-answer/

In fact it seems that the Su-22 kill was scored by an F/A-18E Super Hornet from VFA-87 Golden Warriors that apparently fired two missiles: one AIM-9X Sidewinder from a range of just 0.6 miles which missed the Sukhoi; and then an AIM-120 AMRAAM which shot down the Su-22.

If this is true then theres a bit of stuff here.
1. It was a phonebooth fight
2. The 9X actually missed
3. The AMRAAM can dogfight

The Pk for an AIM-9X depends on several factors, including the relative position of the two jets. If it was a head-on shot, the Su-22 might have been able to see and and avoid the missile, maybe countering with flares. Another possibility is that the Su-22 bled off significant energy while avoiding the 9X, and then got hit by the AMRAAM, even at longer range than 0.6 miles.

[arian]

ut this shootdown does raise the question of what is the US endgame in Syria? By shooting down a Syrian government aircraft or attacking their positions (unless they are attacking us), are we not doing ISISs job for them, as an ad hoc ISIS air force....essentially part-time ISIS allies? While Iran makes missile attacks on ISIS targets in Syria?

Just stop. Stop.

Assad is attacking SDF forces, who are fighting against ISIS. In the same place where there are plenty of US special forces and regular forces. And you say we are "doing ISIS's work"? WTF is Assad doing attacking SDF while they are encircling ISIS in Raqqa? Who's job is he doing?

[arian]

Not sure how Credible the information here is:
https://theaviationgeekclub.com/breakin ... nd-answer/

In fact it seems that the Su-22 kill was scored by an F/A-18E Super Hornet from VFA-87 Golden Warriors that apparently fired two missiles: one AIM-9X Sidewinder from a range of just 0.6 miles which missed the Sukhoi; and then an AIM-120 AMRAAM which shot down the Su-22.

If this is true then theres a bit of stuff here.
1. It was a phonebooth fight
2. The 9X actually missed
3. The AMRAAM can dogfight

The Pk for an AIM-9X depends on several factors, including the relative position of the two jets. If it was a head-on shot, the Su-22 might have been able to see and and avoid the missile, maybe countering with flares. Another possibility is that the Su-22 bled off significant energy while avoiding the 9X, and then got hit by the AMRAAM, even at longer range than 0.6 miles.

The information comes from a CBS reporter. There's no other confirmation from other sources as far as I know. So take that for what it's worth. Then it gets repeated as truth on the internet.

Just because the planes were within 1 mile of each other it doesn't mean there was a "dogfight". The SH approached it head on first to warn it, and probably (or certainly as within the ROE) also contacted the pilot to warn him and tailed him until the release of weapons from the Su-22. Doesn't mean there was any dogfight or evading on the part of the Su-22 or maneuvering on the part of the SH. We don't know any of that.

[popcorn]

Oz is being cautious, for now, until things settle down.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/06/a ... 09807.html

[arian]

Euphraties boundary is way too far east/constricting for the US to limit itself to or comply with Russia's dictate.

Interesting that they're highlighting the SAMs and do not mention their fighters in Syria. Sounds to me they are building themselves a way out. And it's doubtful their coastal missile batteries can cover or engage everything west of the Euphraties unless they move their SAMs further east.

When they say west of Euphrates they're probably talking about the Aleppo area, where US planes strike AQ positions. So, I guess Russia is now acting as Al Qaeda's air force

Their SAMs certainly can't see very far into Syria from their positions given the mountain range blocking their view. Although they do claim to have moved an S-300 battery somewhere east of Aleppo. But there's no confirmation of that, and they have claimed to have moved that poor S-300 battery about 3 different places so far in Syria. So it may not be there at all.

[popcorn]

It's in the Baltic but Russians are pissed.
http://edition.cnn.com/2017/06/20/polit ... index.html

[MD]

Just stop. Stop.

Assad is attacking SDF forces, who are fighting against ISIS. In the same place where there are plenty of US special forces and regular forces. And you say we are "doing ISIS's work"? WTF is Assad doing attacking SDF while they are encircling ISIS in Raqqa? Who's job is he doing?

You're confusing perceptions vs reality.

The whole thing is a cluster over there, with a number of groups fighting one another, that we are only going to get further bogged down in if we aren't careful. Go over and see for yourself if you like. Things aren't as easy and clear as you would like to think they are, and getting mired in one's civil war is not something that often goes well.

[arian]

Things aren't as easy and clear as you would like to think they are, and getting mired in one's civil war is not something that often goes well.

Too late for that, and that's a different issue then what you said originally. What you said originally is outright false.

[MD]

Things aren't as easy and clear as you would like to think they are, and getting mired in one's civil war is not something that often goes well.

Too late for that, and that's a different issue then what you said originally. What you said originally is outright false.

You missed "perception vs reality", so no, the perception isnt false depending on who wants to play it, since both Assad and the SDF are fighting ISIS.......for now. When ISIS get cleaned out, wait for the new mess to begin.

Its not too late to avoid that.



,

[arian]

You missed "perception vs reality", so no, the perception isnt false

So in other words, my made-up reality is the right one because I chose to believe it. Ok, have a good day sir.

[MD]

You missed "perception vs reality", so no, the perception isnt false

So in other words, my made-up reality is the right one because I chose to believe it. Ok, have a good day sir.

Made up how? A perception of what others choose to believe or not doesnt make it correct or incorrect.

And who knows, Assad, bastard though he may be, may just become an ally again for all we know. Like in Desert Storm, when the Syrian forces were rolling past us to liberate Kuwait City, as Syria was an ally of ours. And that was just 8 years after we'd been bombing Syrian positions in Lebanon and they shot down 2 of our jets, with one pilot KIA and the NFO as a POW.

History can be an interesting beast. Especially with many competing interests in play.

Good day to you too.

[arian]

I said good day, sir!

[MD]

I said good day, sir!

Great movie!