India Taking another Look at the Super Hornet

Military aircraft - Post cold war aircraft, including for example B-2, Gripen, F-18E/F Super Hornet, Rafale, and Typhoon.
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southernphantom

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Unread post25 Jan 2018, 17:25

mixelflick wrote:
SpudmanWP wrote:What's a "down-rated F-35"?


According to "thedrive.com" it's an F-35 with the F-16's latest AESA radar. So no AN/APG-81. What Neptune said :)


And how much would that cost to integrate?
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SpudmanWP

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Unread post25 Jan 2018, 17:48

The ESM would also take a hit since the two are so interconnected in the F-35.
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XanderCrews

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Unread post25 Jan 2018, 18:06

SpudmanWP wrote:The ESM would also take a hit since the two are so interconnected in the F-35.



I know a guy who helped design the nose section of the F-35. Its packed with Radar, avionics, AAR probe, MADL, EOTS, EODAS, etc, getting it all to fit was no mean feat.

Some idiot on the Drive who doesn't know a damn thing has a thought and suddenly avionics are like legos! :doh:
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hythelday

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Unread post25 Jan 2018, 20:04

XanderCrews wrote:I know a guy who helped design the nose section of the F-35. Its packed with Radar, avionics, AAR probe, MADL, EOTS, EODAS, etc, getting it all to fit was no mean feat.

Some idiot on the Drive who doesn't know a damn thing has a thought and suddenly avionics are like legos! :doh:


Remember the "just upgrade 4th gen!" drivel? Well it's "just downgrade the 5th gen!" now.
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XanderCrews

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Unread post26 Jan 2018, 01:14

hythelday wrote:
XanderCrews wrote:I know a guy who helped design the nose section of the F-35. Its packed with Radar, avionics, AAR probe, MADL, EOTS, EODAS, etc, getting it all to fit was no mean feat.

Some idiot on the Drive who doesn't know a damn thing has a thought and suddenly avionics are like legos! :doh:


Remember the "just upgrade 4th gen!" drivel? Well it's "just downgrade the 5th gen!" now.



That is so 2007
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madrat

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Unread post26 Jan 2018, 02:22

hythelday wrote:And why bother with Flanker airframe then? Because of the looks? Just buy more Rafales for the same effect. Or F-15s. Not to mention that such extensive modifications wouldn't be okay with Russia anyway


For starters, the Chinese are already able to match MKI. The machine is too bulky to survive direct engagement in the air with their current technology. They need something to keep them relevant, especially in regards to survival against missiles. For all its elegance and agility, it's a lumbering tactical bomber playing fighter. Only it's not really practical as is as a tactical bomber or fighter.

The MKI is not obsolete quite yet, but it has virtually no edge over regional rivals. It needs a smaller RCS. It's too big and boxy to become stealth. But RCS reduction would help put it on pat with Su-35S. It also needs electronic warfare technology that is beyond India"s ability to produce. I'm sure Dassault would happily work with them to integrate European vendors technology at a premium price.

Either the United States is open for business or it passes off the work to the European community. It's pretty obvious that China would be a counterproductive partner just like the Russian partnership. The United States has several decades of technology edge over the Indians that would be marketable in a progressive partnership to win contracts without selling out the current secret sauce recipes.

Upgraded MKI (backed by Rafale and Tejas) just places the Indians in a good place when it comes to national security.
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neptune

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Unread post26 Jan 2018, 06:43

India's F-16 Block 70

- The F-16 Block 70 combines capability upgrades, most notably the advanced Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) radar with a new avionics architecture, and structural upgrades to extend the structural life of the aircraft by more than 50 percent beyond that of previous production F-16 aircraft. F-16 Block 70 software takes advantage of technologies not available when earlier Block F-16s were developed and produced. Operational capabilities are enhanced through an advanced datalink, targeting pod and weapons; precision GPS navigation and the Automatic Ground Collision Avoidance System (Auto GCAS).

- Lockheed Martin has more than 36 years of weapon integration experience with the F-16. No other organization can match this weapons integration experience. In concert with the U.S. Air Force and multiple F-16 Foreign Military Sales customers, Lockheed Martin has certified more than 3,300 carriage and release configurations for greater that 180 weapon and store types. Our experience as a weapon integrator has enabled the F-16 to be one of the most versatile multirole fighters ever.

- Northrop Grumman’s advanced APG-83 AESA radar; Scalable Agile Beam Radar (SABR) delivers greater situational awareness, flexibility and quicker all-weather targeting. The APG-83 provides pilots with unprecedented target area detail and digital map displays that can be tailored with slew and zoom features. The APG-83 provides F-16s with 5th Generation fighter radar capabilities by leveraging hardware and software commonality with F-22 and F-35 AESA radars.

- Another key feature of the F-16 Block 70 configuration is the new Center Pedestal Display (CPD), which provides critical tactical imagery to pilots on a high-resolution 6”x 8” screen. The high-resolution display allows pilots to take full advantage of AESA and targeting pod data. The new CPD enables color moving maps, larger and easier to manage air-to-air Situation Displays, zoom functionality with the ability to switch information among displays, and a digital display of Flight Instrument Data. The CPD is also compatible with the Night Vision Imaging System.

- The Automatic Ground Collision Avoidance System (Auto GCAS) was purpose-built to prevent deadly crashes and has already been credited with saving at least four F-16 pilots and their aircraft since the system entered service with the U.S. Air Force in late 2014. The Auto GCAS is designed to reduce incidents of what is known as controlled flight into terrain, or CFIT. According to U.S. Air Force statistics, CFIT incidents account for 26 percent of aircraft losses and a staggering 75 percent of all F-16 pilot fatalities. The F-16 Auto GCAS system is currently being integrated into the U.S. Air Force’s F-16 fleet and the Air Force and Lockheed Martin plan to develop similar systems for the F-22 and F-35.
:)

...Lockheed Martin has described the F-16IN as "the most advanced and capable F-16 ever." Based closely on the F-16E/F Block 60 as supplied to the UAE, the features on the F-16IN include;
- Conformal fuel tanks (CFTs)
- AN/APG-80 active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar
- GE F110-132A engine with 32,000 pounds (143 kN) of thrust with FADEC controls
- electronic warfare suite and infra-red searching (IRST)
- advanced all-color glass cockpit with three large displays
- a helmet-mounted cueing system
Lockheed Martin's vice-president-Business Development (India) Orville Prins has said that "I can assure you, the Super Viper is much more advanced in all aspects than the [Block 50/52+] F-16s being given to Pakistan".
:wink:
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popcorn

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Unread post06 Feb 2018, 04:37

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 788978.cms

Boeing in talks with Indian Navy to sell F/A-18 fighter jets

Boeing Co. is in talks with the Indian Navy to sell its F/A-18 Hornet fighter jets in a bid to gain a bigger share of the defense market in the South Asian country, the world's biggest arms importer.

A lot of technical evaluation has yet to take place, Gene Cunningham, Boeing's vice president for defense, space and security, told reporters at the Singapore Airshow. The company is also seeing opportunities for its KC-46 multirole tanker in India and other countries, Cunningham sai ..


//economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/62788978.cms?utm_source=contentofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst
"When a fifth-generation fighter meets a fourth-generation fighter—the [latter] dies,”
CSAF Gen. Mark Welsh
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Corsair1963

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Unread post06 Feb 2018, 08:04

popcorn wrote:https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/defence/boeing-in-talks-with-indian-navy-to-sell-f/a-18-fighter-jets/articleshow/62788978.cms

Boeing in talks with Indian Navy to sell F/A-18 fighter jets



It would be a colossal mistake on the part of India to acquire the Super Hornet or even Rafale for her Carriers. As neither are likely to match the forthcoming J-20 and/or J-31.
:doh:
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hythelday

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Unread post06 Feb 2018, 10:13

Corsair1963 wrote:
popcorn wrote:https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/defence/boeing-in-talks-with-indian-navy-to-sell-f/a-18-fighter-jets/articleshow/62788978.cms

Boeing in talks with Indian Navy to sell F/A-18 fighter jets



It would be a colossal mistake on the part of India to acquire the Super Hornet or even Rafale for her Carriers. As neither are likely to match the forthcoming J-20 and/or J-31.
:doh:


Unlike the MiG-29K?
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Corsair1963

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Unread post06 Feb 2018, 11:46

hythelday wrote:
Unlike the MiG-29K?

The Mig-29K was a colossal mistake too! Which, is why the Indian Navy is already looking for a replacement. :wink:
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mixelflick

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Unread post07 Feb 2018, 16:22

Corsair1963 wrote:
hythelday wrote:
Unlike the MiG-29K?

The Mig-29K was a colossal mistake too! Which, is why the Indian Navy is already looking for a replacement. :wink:


Other than Rafale and SH, what other options are there? It's unlikely the F-35B/C is going to be offered, so stealth is out. They for damn sure aren't going to get a carrier rated SU-57, LOL. So it'll have to be 1 of those 2. I predict it'll be Rafale, if for no other reason than commonality with their land based birds. Being shut out of the F-35 is a major limiting factor for India. Especially given the point made about Chinese J-20's and 31's.

The more I study these other countries carrier projects and associated air arms, the more I think it just isn't worth it. Whevever the US Navy goes to war, it takes a minimum of 3 carriers in theatre. A single carrier with limited power projection is an expensive and limited proposition. They'd be much better off building a first rate fleet of offensive missile cruisers, or a true (land based) long range strike aircraft and tanker fleet IMO..
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